Rances Barthelemy vs. Mickey Bey Scorecard by Champion97


scorecard by CHAMPION97
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
RANCES BARTHELEMY
10
8
9
10
9
10
9
10
10
10
10
10
115
MICKEY BEY
9
10
10
9
10
9
10
9
9
9
9
9
112

Fight:



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Rances Barthelemy

Mickey Bey



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Comments

What did you think of this fight?

Champion97's picture

I thought it was interesting, but untidy, Rances Barthelemy definitely won the fight, there's no question about that, I think 117-110 is wider than ideal, and you can argue it wasn't a one sided fight (I don't actually believe it was to be honest), but Barthelemy won the fight, and won it conclusively. I was astounded at the mathematics in this fight, I've seen widely disputed split decisions with one judge scoring wide one way, and the other two scoring the fight close one way or another, but one judge scoring a fight as wide as 117-110 one way, and another judge scoring that same score, the other way!, I've never seen that before, I do recall one judge scoring 116-112 for Brandon Rios when he was out classed by Richard Abril, whilst a real judge scored Abril ahead 117-111, but even that wasn't as shocking as the difference between the former judges, Hilton Whitiker, in my opinion, should consider whether or not his job is the right one for him, unless of course, a disadvantage of some sort was a factor during the fight, in which case, he should not have committed to the assignment.

Yeah, after watching the fight for the second time I thought Barthélemy clearly won the fight. I have no idea what I saw the first time watching this fight. The scorecards were ridiculous for this fight. That one judge was crazy only giving Barthélemy 3 rounds is crazy. Also what did you think of the knockdown? I really didn't think it was a knockdown if I remember correctly. I'm still looking that abril vs Rios and bute vs jack fight. I never asked you what do you think of postol vs Crawford?

Champion97's picture

The 'knock down' was bizarre, it was clear to me that it was the force and impact of an accidental head clash which caused the fall, I think it may have also been balance related, it's a shame when fighters fall not due to clean success from their opponent, and it is officially deemed as a knock down, but I something I have learned over the years is that no judge can go against the decision of the referee, so whether a knock down was a just that or a patent slip, as long as the referee treats it as a knock down, a judge has to score the round the way a knock down causes the round to have to be scored, I know you understand why, so I don't need to ramble on about that, I notice when looking at some of your scorecards, that you go by the book when scoring a fight (meaning you follow the referee), which is a very good thing. Having said all I've stated regarding knock down situations, I don't believe in knock downs confirming 10-8 rounds, I feel it is valid to score a round 10-9 for a fighter who scores a knock down, but loses the round in the event that the knock down is taken out of the equation, but that's a matter of opinion.

I'm sorry, but I don't know what to suggest, it is very frustrating when your looking for a chance to view a fight you're very intrigued to see, but you fail to find the opportunity to see it, especially when your interest is great enough that you are planning to actually score the fight, and in an educated and knowledgeable way, like you are, I know how irritating it is, I'm looking for a couple myself at the moment one of them is Vanes Martirosyan vs Ishe Smith. I think it's great, I was surprised when it was confirmed, the two best light welterweights in the world battling for the top spot in the division, it doesn't get much more exciting than that. I read today that Adrien Broner vs Danny Garcia is a possibility for the future, I would be very intrigued to see that fight, I think it would be very interesting, although he wouldn't be likely to be the odds on favourite amongst pundits, casual fans, and analytical fans, I believe Adrien Broner would win that fight, I believe for what it's worth, at 140, Broner wins big, and 147, he has a small edge over Garcia, what do you think of the idea of that fight?

I did not think that was a knockdown at all. But still even if it's called we still have to score it as a knockdown even though it wasn't. I just go by the regular scoring for a knockdown. I didn't even know you can score a 10-9 round when there is a knockdown scored.

It's not your fault that it's hard to find certain fights. There is one of Jack vs bute on YouTube but it isn't a high quality of the video. Another fight I've been looking for for a long time is Andrade vs martirosyan. Postol vs Crawford should be a good fight. I'm leaning more towards Crawford in that fight.Postol really impressed me in his last fight against Matthysse. I really didn't give him a chance at all and he knocked him out. Yeah I heard about broner vs Garcia might happen. I was suprised hearing this because I thought that Garcia would fight the winner of Ortiz vs Berto but this would be so much better. I think I would give the edge to Garcia as well. It should be a good fight.

In other news did you hear about Kovalev vs Ward a done deal? And that GGG might fight Eubank jr and its getting close to finalized.

Champion97's picture

That is completely fair enough, a knock down creating the conclusion of a 10-8 round doesn't necessarily have to be the case, but to always score the round this way in the event of a knock down is the done thing, and I completely understand why. In my opinion, after a boxer is knocked down by his opponent at the start of the round, and then works extremely hard to overcome his opponent for the rest of the round, then he deserves to be rewarded with a point, that's my opinion, and many disagree. The main reason why I believe the option for a 10-9 round to be scored for a boxer who scores a knock down should always be open is because a boxer can score a knock down early in the round, but remain completely inactive for over 2 minutes, whilst they are very heavily out worked by their opponent, should the success of their opponent be worth nothing?, and should fighters who score knock downs be able to take advantage like this?, I believe no is the answer to both those questions, but like I said, it's a matter of opinion.

I've actually been on the look out for Andrade vs Martirosyan as well. Thanks for the reminder, I actually forgot about that, I knew there was some potential opportunity which Andre Berto put himself in a an eligible position for after avenging his defeat to Victor Ortiz, I had just forgotten which. I still haven't seen Matthysse vs Postol, I intend to at some juncture, I think Crawford will win the fight, but I don't think there's a lot in it, something I find very interesting is the adaptability of Terence Crawford, when he faced Yukrioris Gamboa, he was confronted with serious difficulties, Gamboa was absolutely fantastic that night, I really thought he was heading towards a very impressive victory, Crawford was in a lot technical, and tactical trouble, he was having little his way, but he adjusted, and came out with a golden victory. I believe Broner would have the beating of Garcia, is that what you meant?

I have now!, wonderful!, I heard about that as well, I don't like the idea yet, I think 2-3 years down the line, it's a great opportunity for Chris Eubank Jr, and a great fight, but now, although I'm not against the fight, and I'd love to see it tomorrow or in 5 years time, I just don't feel the timing is right. I believe that if the fight does happen this year, Golovkin will stop Eubank, mid to late.

I just think it's the fair thing to do in a fight. You do make a good point about if a fighter knocks the other one down and does nothing the rest to give it a 10-9. That's really the only fair explanation to give a 10-9 round when a knockdown occurs.

Yeah I've been looking for that fight for a long time. Both great fighters in a fight that can go either way from what I see from the cards that are already on the fight. I feel like Crawford has the advantage in the fight.He's such a versatile fighter, more than Postol. He can fight in Southpaw just as good as he is in his normal orthodox position. He can mix it up very well. I just think he can easily adapt to Postol's gameplan. I still have to watch Gamboa vs Crawford. I think I might watch that fight next.Yeah I meant to say that Broner would beat Garcia if they fight.

Kovalev vs Ward should be amazing. I honestly think it can go down as one of the best fights of all time. I still don't know who I think will win, I keep changing my mind. For Golovkin vs Eubank, I think it is a good step up for both fighters. I think that if the Canelo fight doesn't happen (Even though it is dead at the monent), this is a perfect fight or a fight with Billy Joe Saunders. But, from what I'm hearing the Eubank fight is more likely to happen.

Champion97's picture

It's basic scoring, it's following the fundamental scoring system, and I fully respect that. Thanks, to be honest, when we think about it, it could be a lot more than merely a situation of a vast difference in activity, there is a possibility that a round could be dominated by one fighter through the last 2 and half minutes, despite being knocked down early in the round, to be honest, I think it's fair for some say fighter is winning a round (not necessarily by a lot or with ease) but the fighter is dropped, so it becomes 10-9 on a scorecard, my scoring isn't predictable in this regard, anyway, most judges wouldn't even go to the trouble of analysing this, they would just bring their minds to the conclusion that if a fighter scores a knock down, he wins the round 10-8, and I have nothing against this at all, it's opinionated.

Great point, that's a great word, 'versatile', and you used in the right context, Crawford is versatile with his offence, it is always useful to make your stance unpredictable. I agree, adaptability could be key, Crawford is also a very dangerous puncher, but it's not just his power that impresses me, it's the way he uses it.

Oh I know, I can't wait, I can't think of a fight I would rather see at the moment. I agree, I think it's a genuine 50/50 fight, and I don't think for a second that it's a case of 'boxer vs puncher', I think it's a case of a match up between two phenomenal, golden all round boxers, I say golden, because to me, this fight, strikes gold, it is two of the top 5 boxers in the world in my opinion, and with that statement (if you agree), you just have to be excited about the fight, I predict Kovalev to win the fight, but I wouldn't be surprised if Ward was to come out victorious, and it really is a 50/50 fight, can't wait! My hopes for Golovkin vs Alvarez are not high, but if it does happen one day, that would be great, obviously. It's a step up for Golovkin, but for Eubank, it's not a dive into the deep end when he's just learning to swing without arm bands, but its a dive into the deep end when he's just about learning to swim there, well, in my opinion. I'm very surprised Eubank Sr has let the fight take place at this point in time. The Billy Joe Saunders fight is also a great option, although, again, from his point of view, the Golovkin fight is a year or two too early in my opinion, he's only 26, and still has a lot of maturing and improving to do, I think the perfect opponent for Gennady Golovkin would be Danny Jacobs. I think the key to victory for Golovkin against Eubank will be to make him pay for every single mistake, dearly, and take advantage of every weakness, this is something Golovkin does so well, I believe right now, Eubank wins rounds, makes the fight last maybe 8 rounds, gives Golovkin problems, but turns out to be over challenged, with experience being a large factor, I believe a couple of years from now, the fight may even go the distance, and I think it could even be a potentially close fight, I definitely think Eubank would provide Golovkin with a much harder task in beating him, and make the fight a genuine challenge.

Sorry about the long time I took to respond. I have been busy for the past couple days. Is it against the rules to score a 10-9 round when a knockdown occurs? Because I always thought you had to automatically do a 10-8 round when a knockdown happens.

Exactly. Crawfords skill will be to much for Postol to handle in my opinon. I heard they might put Crawford against Lomachenko if he gets past Postol. I think that is a very interesting matchup but the weight difference might be an issue.

I agree, I can't think of a better matchup right now than this. This has a lot on the line. Light Heavyweight supremacy and a #1 p4p spot. A very interesting fight. Yeah you can be right about Kovalev winning but I can also see Ward. I do think that Ward needs to take another fight before the Kovalev fight like Kovalev is. It will get rid of ring rust and get him more experience in the Light Heavyweight division. On the Golovkin Vs Eubank fight, I like the idea. Since we're probably not seeing Canelo vs GGG anytime soon, I think this is a very good option. I think it's the most realistic because Jacobs said he needs a few more fights, and his dad is really pushing the fight. It's a good test for the both of them. Eubank will be a problem for Golvkin. By the way, what do you think is next for Provodnikov after his loss to Molina?

Champion97's picture

No worries. No, but it's not the done thing, and I don't want to make you feel as though have been missing something all this time, and as though you have to change your scoring method, the way you score fights, must be your decision, whether or not you want to open up the option of a 10-9 round in the knock down scenario we have discussed, is completely up to you.

I agree, we believe Crawford's going to pull it off, but we're not going to know until July
23. Would I like to see Crawford vs Lomackenko?, yes, do I believe it's a good idea?, no, I really don't, I believe forcing yourself to move up in weight is unhealthy, and foolish, I also believe even pre planning changes in weight before you have good reason to (and 'good' doesn't mean, 'I think that would be a great fight, just got to jump up a couple of categories), if you struggle to make weight, and you feel your not comfortable at a certain weight, then it is possible that a change in weight is a good idea, but whether there are 12 potential fights that get you put of bed in the morning, or 2, your weight category is your weight category, and that is how it should stay, until nature changes that. I think Bob Arum sees an absolutely fantastic fight when he imagines Crawford vs Lomackenko, and he's set his heart upon it, I believe he has already started to get the fans hopes up, and if Lomackenko was a lightweight considering a move up in weight for the right reasons (e.g. he had started to struggle to make the weight, and he was starting to feel less comfortable at his current weight) then I would be all for the idea, but there are two weight categories between them, and what's to say Crawford won't comfortably move up to 147 before too long, see the problem is that Arum will now make a special effort to bind the two into the same weight category, and I believe the risk that the fight will end up taking place through financial and pride relayed temptations, when at least one of the two fighters is at a very unhealthy and unethical disadvantage in terms of weight is very high, and if that is to be the case, I would rather have not seen the fight happen, I think weight categories should be respected for their purposes, and and taken seriously, I believe the key with moving up in weight is body before mind, not the other way around.

I agree, on many things you say there, I'm also unable to think of a better fight that could possibly happen right now, and that isn't a bad idea at all, Ward is planning to have fought three times in 2016 when the hear comes to an end, I believe he's still searching for an opponent for next month, I heard Nathan Cleverly was an option, that's a great fight in my opinion, he would benefit massively from some more experience at light heavyweight, he may not fight until November.

I was speaking more from a Eubank beneficial point of view, from the point of view of a fan, boy is it s great fight, I don't doubt that it would be a great fight, I don't doubt that they would be tests for each other, although I think it's more of a challenge for Golovkin than a test, it is a test of just how great he is against an opponent of the calibre of Chris Eubank Jr, but for Eubank, it is more a test of whether or not he's he is a truly great fighter by world class standards, the difference is, we already know Golovkin is one of the bes ton the planet, it's a test for him to an extent, but it's more of a mere challenge by previous comparison for him, I'm not against the fight, at all, and it makes sense, whether it happens this year, or next, I just feel as though Eubank has some psychological and tactical maturing to do before he can apply anything close to his full potential against Golovkin, and more importantly, compete against Golovkin without unwise mistakes and sheer inexperience knocking his confidence. I'll tell you what, I rarely miss a thing, but your one step ahead of me there mike, I did not know that Jacobs had stated his desire to wait until he's had a few more fights before stepping into the ring with Golovkin. I think Eubank Sr wants his son to have absolutely no regrets, I think he must be confident in his sons maturity, and that's great, Eubank Sr is an intelligent man, and nobody knows Jr better, but saying to yourself 'I boxed with stupidity in that fight, no allowance for mistakes in the next fight though, I just won tame those mistakes, I refuse to let myself', but it's another thing to work yourself into a rhythm of following instructions, showing tactical maturity, doing all the right things, and being in a secure mindset of a fighter tat does not make mistakes, Jr does make a lot of mistakes, and I mean a lot, they've never really had any consequences (that I've seem), with the exception of the Saunders fight, but Gennady Golovkin, he makes you pay dearly for every single error you make, you slip up, boy can he capitalise, and to me, that's a big part of the difference, Golovkin (in my opinion) would have far more work to do, and far more of a challenge on his hands if he was to face an improved, matured version of Chris Eubank Jr, but hey, you're not wrong, it's still a very competitive fight, still probably a very entertaining fight, and still a great idea, if the the fight is to be confirmed at some juncture, I will look forward to it, and will be very interested to watch it.

I'm not sure to be honest, I still haven't actually had a chance to watch Provodnikov vs Molina, I may have a better idea when I've seen the fight, it's a setback for him, that's for sure, but he's bounced back from defeat before, although I must say, we may have seen the best of him when he fought Tim Bradley on that terrific thriller in 2013, I'll have stronger and more analytical opinion on this subject when I've seen him fight, but we should consider the possibility that his best days are behind him and if he continues it will be more of a backwards and downwards situation rather than the opposite, we shouldn't write him off, but we should consider the possibility of his increasing decline. Provodnikov is only 32, I wonder if his decrease in success could be a mental thing, of so, then sports psychology is an option for him, just a suggestion, but I believe it's useful in the sport.

I might start doing that. I'm not changing old scorecards I had though. I just thought it wasn't allowed to do that.

I think for Lomachenko, Walters is the better option. They're at the same weight and it's more realistic. Also, I think Lomachenko should get a rematch with Salido would be good. I think that's a winnable fight and he can avenge a defeat. I think the best time to move up in weight is either when you can't make weight or uncomfortable at that weight, or pretty much accomplished everything at that divison. What do you think of when people say that in order to be a great fighter you have to fight in multiple divisions? There's people on the internet who call Golovkin a coward and stuff like that because they say he won't move up.

I hope he finds an opponent soon. Cleverly is a good option for him. Do you think he'll be able to get a fight in the next month?

Yeah, it doesn't matter to me if the fight happens this or next year. I just think it's the easiest fight to be made. Since the Canelo fight probably won't happen next, and I'm not sure what Saunders is doing to get the fight, and that I heard from a website that his trainer and him want a few more fights before Golovkin fight. I also heard that Canelo has a fight date for September 17th. Do you think there's any chance that can be made for a GGG fight? Golovkin is a very skilled fighter and Eubank will have to fix his mistakes and be at the top of his game to beat Golovkin. Eubank's defence is very underrated and his punching power is as well. Golovkin won't be able let him hit him like he let monroe hit him.

I really think it's the end for Provodnikov. He lost a fight that he should've won. I remember in his fight against Matthysse they said that Ruslan was considering retirement. So we'll have to see what he does next.

Champion97's picture

Cool, whatever you choose to do, I encourage you. To be honest, many do, it certainly isn't common knowledge, and like I said, it's not the done thing, but I do think commentators should explain the situation more often, I don't like to hear 'nevertheless, it's a 10-8 round', from commentators in the event of a round finishing having contained a knock down, it doesn't surprise me when I find out people who have been following boxing for years aren't aware of the options when scoring a round that contained a knock down.

I highly doubt that fight will happen, I think Walters sees too little to gain, and too much to lose, it seems to me has if Walters may have fallen under the radar in the last year or so, I believe he's in the middle of a lay off, and his last fight was a blemish, whether or not it should be an official blemish I don't know. I don't think the fight is realistic to be honest, especially if Lomackenko does move up in weight (I would encourage him to move up in weight, one division of course, if he genuinely feels like he would be stronger at lightweight). That's a possibility, I think the Vargas rematch is also an option for Salido, but a rematch against Lomackenko is going to be financially the most wise decision, and the fans are likely to prefer the Lomackenko rematch, although both are great ideas for Salido. If Lomackenko moves up to lightweight then there are some great fights up there for him, Rances Barthelemy, Terry Flanagan, Anthony Crolla, Richard Abril, and many others. Actually, I don't believe you should make an alteration in sanctioning weight merely through boredom, it's a very difficult position to be in, but in that situation, patience is the answer. I don't think anything, I know those people are either very stupid, very mentally lazy, or just enjoying their role as wind up merchant, if one thinks that way, then they're a moron, it is as simple as that, I have absolutely no time for people like that. Well, those people don't deserve a second of your time, I think it's about immaturity, these people want to see Golovkin fight Ward, Kovalev etc, and they're stupid enough to believe that moving up in weight is as easy as restyling your hair, they know absolutely nothing about anything complex that involves the sport of boxing, these people show no consideration, no desire to learn, they're ungrateful, I don't pay any attention to them whatsoever, and I strongly advise you don't either, the idiots who are stupid enough to believe that only those who dominate in multiple weight divisions can be great fighters, along with the morons who accuse Golovkin of cowardice because he hasn't moved up or down in weight are likely to be the same idiots that believe any professional boxer can be 'a pussy', the same idiots who call Floyd Mayweather 'a coward', who 'runs away like a wimp and can't fight like a tough guy'. I want to state a very strong opinion of mine regarding weight alterations in the sport of boxing, promoters, fans, pundits, they shouldn't have any say, whether or not a fighter moves up in weight should be up to 2-3 people, the fighter himself, his head trainer, and (if not the same person), his strength and conditioning coach, the latter of those three (in my opinion) is the most credible observer.

I think he can, but it's a challenge, I think it will be easier for him to find an opponent at light heavyweight that it was for him at super middleweight, because his ability to perform at 175 the way he did at 168 is questionable, although I believe he can, some do not, this may tempt opponents into fighting him, Nathan Cleverly would be the perfect opponent in my opinion.

It might be, well, the easiest fight that isn't another disappointment. I elieve the Alvarez fight is a long way off, I wonder whether or not Alvarez really wants that fight. Billy Joe Saunders has made it very clear, he has always left and will always leave match making and anything else promotionally related to Frank Warren, so whether or not that fight happens depends more on Warren than Saunders, of Saunders gets the offer, I'm sure he will accept, and the fight will take place, but Frank Warren is a stubborn man, and I don't think he's the best at handling the B - side, he will make a fuss of the financial situation, the date, everything, whereas Eddie Hearn is very different, and although it's a pro and con situation in my opinion, I believe with Eddie Hearn as your promoter, you stand more chance of securing an opportunity against Golovkin than if your promoter is Frank Warren. Well, you never know, nothing's impossible, but I very highly doubt it, I'm not trying to raise your hopes, and I don't advise you to expect it. Absolutely, and that is a lot more easily said than it it done, it isn't hard to say 'I'll just get my act together and erase all mistakes', and expect everything to work well, it takes time, experience and maturity to develop the tactical discipline you need to have any change of defeating Gennady Golovkin, let's not forget, taking high risks is a big part of his style, so he would have a lot of adjusting to do if he was to take a more sensible approach to a fight against Golovkin, these are the reasons why I believe the fight would more a wiser idea of it was to ago pen in a couple of years, then again, like I said, that is speaking from predominantly a Eubank beneficial point of view, I think most of the fans out there would love to see the fight whether it's a 12 round war between an experienced Eubank who is approaching his prime years, or it's a very competitive 7-9 round fight (scheduled for 12 obviously), between GGG (his status goes without saying), and a great, clearly talented, easily world class Eubank who has a lot to learn, and suffers a heavy defeat through mainly inexperience. Eubank's upper body rotation is phenomenal, I remember his displaying this attribute against Chudinov, and I'm not saying his head movement, lateral movement, blocking abilities are poor, but I doubt his defence will be genuinely successful against Golovkin. You're right there, although Eubank is a volume puncher more than a concussive puncher, not that he isn't a concussive puncher, but I think Golovkin will be less cautious than expected, although that is hard to predict, because it's hard to anticipate his tactics, there are a lot of ways for him to approach a fight against Eubank, I think he might even take an experimental attitude to the early rounds, the temperament of Golovkin impresses me, I don't believe he will be easily discouraged, he's also very resourceful, I believe when challenged, when pushed, when possibly even seriously hurt, when in any kind of trouble, when he has to work around adversity, I believe the best in him will be brought out.

You think the fight won't happen? I really hope it does. It is a very interesting match up of styles. I heard Walters declined the fight because of money. I would love to see a Vargas Salido matchup. That fight was my favorite of the year so far and it definitely deserves a rematch. But I would want to see Lomachenko fight Salido before he moves up lightweight. I think he can take over the lightweight division as well. At least that's my prediction. I don't like those people either that have one way of thinking. It's there way or the high way. Your'e so right, moving up in weight is as easy as one would think. Those people don't have a clue about what boxing is about. Calling fighters cowards is ridiculous. Any time a fighter steps in the ring they are risking their lives. Also even if you are fighting a fight you are supposed to win you are taking a risk. Look at Fonfara, he took a tune up style fight in hopes of getting a stevenson rematch and got knocked out by a fighter of a lower level in the first round. It's ridiculous that people would call fighters cowards because they won't do what they want.

I heard on multiple articles that Ward is fighting Alexander Brand on August 6th. That shouldn't be a bad fight. Ward should be able to get a win and gain experience at Light Heavyweight. I honestly like that Ward is more active now. He's fighting 3 times this year how great is that? He hasn't been this active in years.

Ok, I wasn't sure what was going on with Billy Joe Saunders. Thanks for clearing that up. I want to see Canelo fight the best possible opponent he can get if he doesn't fight Golovkin next which it is probably looking that way. I think that Canelo is going to end up fighting Liam Smith next. In my opinon, I think that he's mature enough for Golovkin right now. At least from what I've seen. Another good performance I saw him fight Blackwell, he showed great power and defense. His upper body movement is great. I loved seeing his combinations as well. He will definitely be tested in this fight. Are you looking forward to the Joshua vs Breazele fight? The undercard looks very good with Groves vs Murray, and Eubank Jr vs Doran. I know that the Joshua fight is a mismatch but I look forward to watching him fight.

Champion97's picture

What did you think of this fight?