Keith Thurman vs. Shawn Porter Scorecard by Champion97

scorecard by CHAMPION97



Keith Thurman

Shawn Porter

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Good card champ! This is getting extremely annoying now

Champion97's picture

Thanks mate, so awesome to see you back on here! What you been up to lately?

I ain't been up to much, Thank you Champ! Nice to be here too. I've just been training 3 times a week working on my boxing and watching the boxing, however I didn't get the chance to score fights, which I will now and I plan to score quite a few fights soon. How you doing champ? How did the half marathon go if it had already been?

Champion97's picture

That's good, any time you want any advice or have any questions, just ask me. I'm doing okay, I ran the Humber Bridge Half Marathon yesterday, it was a great experience for me because it was my first ever running event, the bridge itself is just amazing, I'm not over the moon with my time, I was aiming to finish inside 1:40:00, my time was 1:43:24, which is decent, I came 291st out of 1776 runners, but I know I could have done a lot better, I think I kept too much in the tank in the early to mid stages, I'm taking a few weeks off, and then starting a 12 week training schedule in preparation for the Isle of Wight Marathon, which will be very exciting.

It will be, and thank you champ! I will ask you if I need you. Sounds good champ, at least you've given yourself a target to smash next time. I know you can smash the marathon too. Quick word, David Avanesyan beat Shane Mosley and is now Thurman's mandatory. Thurman vs Avanesyan, what's your opinion. I said Thurman between 3 and 5

Champion97's picture

Cool, I hope boxing is good to you as it was to me, who knows?, maybe you'll go a lot further in boxing than I did. Thanks, I'll definitely give it everything, for a marathon, I'd aim for something around 3:30:00, which is decent, and also realistic. People seem to forget that, David Avanesyan deserves a lot of credit for his fantastic victory over Shane Mosley, yes, he was a physically declined Shane Mosley who's best days were many years behind him, but he was still Shane Mosley, still in good shape, more experienced than ever, talk about tactically sound, he knows the sport inside and out, and he received advice from the legendary Roberto Duran, I think of people are going to refuse to give Avanesyan credit for beating Mosley just because he was a declined athlete, then Avanesyan may as well have not even stepped into the ring, he was treated very unethically by the ridiculous commentators, I couldn't even listen to them, idiots. It's a great fight, David Avanesyan is a challenge for Thurman in my opinion, I think Thurman wins, I don't think it's close, and I think Thurman gets the stoppage, I think the fight would reach the late stage, and Thurman would be made to work, the fight is definitely worthwhile, and Avanesyan has earned the opportunity, the Porter rematch will have to wait, and it can, there's no reason why it necessarily has to be immediate, it can always be kept open as an option for the future, but right now, in my opinion, after being beaten by a whisker, again, and after repeatedly impressing big, Shawn Porter deserves another world title shot very soon, Garcia vs Porter should be next in my opinion, that way, assuming he wins, he has a title like he deserves to already in my opinion, and the rematch between himself and Keith Thurman is made even more exciting, and even more worthwhile, of course, that is unlikely to happen.

Any chance we can get you as a boxing promoter haha, you have more sense than Eddie "The Casuals" Hearn and Al "PBC (Poor Boxing Coverage)" Haymon,. Danny Garcia has looked lacklustre lately, it wouldn't surprise me if Floyd decided to come back and beat him. I think Porter beats Garcia. The last time Danny looked good was against, well, Rod Salka, which isn't any credit to him. A Porter Thurman unification on PPV with a co main event of Spence vs Brook (if Brook beats Vargas, which he should, even though I don't want him too) would be epic. Maybe I am underestimating Avanesyan, he did control Mosley in that fight, Mosley looks a shell of his old self however, without Duran that wouldn't have been close. Mosley won't retire from here in my opinion. Whilst I am on the point of retirement, Ruslan Provodnikov looked awful in his last fight and said in the post fight interview he is considering retirement. I see John Molina, whilst he is an excellent boxer and has brawling slugging tactics, as a gatekeeper to the bigger fights, so if Ruslan can't get past that, then he should really consider it, in the last fight it wasn't that he was getting outboxed much, Ruslan wasn't trying, he wasn't able to, he was gassed easily. What's your opinion on this. Finally,I hope I can go deep into boxing, it's an excellent sport with an achievable goal of you work hard enough, so I'm gonna work on boxing and develop being quick with reactions and quick on the feet, I ain't bad at everything else. Thanks for the support Champ.

Champion97's picture

He has, he does deserve credit for his repeatedly victorious ways, but at this level, it's time for him to throw himself into the deep end in my opinion, for him to have fought Rod Salka, that was absolutely disgusting, it's fair to say the best doesn't need to fight another one of the best in every fight, but no fight should be a mismatch like that was. I think Danny Garcia deserves credit for defeating Robert Guerrero, who I believe is underrated, but let's face it, he struggled, and it was a close fight, and although Guerrero is a very good fighter, he isn't one of the best, and he if Garcia is as good as he and his father insist, he should be doing a lot better than beating 'the ghost' by anything between nothing, and two points, which were the bounds of scoring legitimacy in that fight. I believe Shawn Porter defeats Danny Garcia, and it's not close. The idea of a unification fight between Keith Thurman and Shawn Porter sounds good, but I think although your idea of the Co main event would be ideal, I don't think it's realistic, because Kell Brook has confirmed he is moving up to the 154 lb division, so I think when talking about the welterweight division, we should eliminate Kell from the equation, and when talking about the light middleweight division, we should include him, why don't you you want Brook to beat Vargas mate?, you not keen on Brook? Let's just make sure we're on the same page, as Steve Bunce, Barry Jones and Steve Lilis said, the fight wasn't close, the judges who score the fight 117-110 did their jobs properly and efficiently, that judge who scored the fight 114-113, was invalid with his scoring and his scorecard was ridiculous, without Roberto Duran in his corner, the fight would have been even more one sided. David Avanesyan deserves a massive amount of praise for defeating Shane Mosley, forget about him being passed his best, or shot, David Avanesyan defeated him, and defeated him big, just for the record, Mosely had declined considerably, but he was still Shane Mosley, his conditioning was good, he had trained hard, you don't lose experience, in fact, you don't stop gaining it, and as we've acknowledged, he received instructions from Roberto Duran, one of the best lightweights of all time, and when in what I believe was the wrong weight category, defeated Sugar Ray Leonard, anybody who doesn't give Avanesyan a massive amount of credit for his achievement is behaving like an idiot, and so is anybody who complains about Thurman vs Avanesyan. I think he will to be honest, I think because he was out classed (because he really was out classed), and by an opponent who isn't one of the best on the planet (or isn't believed to be by anybody neutral, or nobody I know of), he will realise it's time to retire permanently, I would think it a stronger possibility that he would continue if he hadn't retired in the first place, but his comeback was based on him believing he could still achieve in the way he set out to, but wanting to know for sure whether he could or couldn't, I think he has closure now, he's an asset to the sport, maybe he can be a trainer, maybe an analyst, who knows, whatever he does, I wouldn't like to see him in the ring again. I can comment on Provodnikov because I haven't had the chance to see the fight, but from what I've gathered from various sources, I think he should consider retirement, he's not at the right age for retirement, but I realise it's not that simple, I think sports psychology is the answer for him, and I think he should come to a gradual and healthy decision.

Absolutely, personally, although I wanted to be a world champion at one stage, and could think of nothing other than boxing, once I took a really good shot, I had doubts, and all the time I spent boxing after landing the first really good shot I connected with, I was in denial, it wasn't for me in the end, but I have no regrets, I don't want to start boxing again, but I don't wish I hadn't been involved in the sport.

Ok, since I took too long to respond and I forgot most of the things you said but I'll try my best to remember everything.

Danny Garcia and his camp should be more willing to give rematches. All the greats have done it. That's one thing I dont like about garcia. I would predict thurman and porter to crush him. But against Brook I would also give the slight edge to Brook.

On Joshua vs Breazele, I haven't watched the fight yet but I plan on watching it today. When I said I gave him 3 rounds, I meant to say I gave him 3 rounds before he got knocked out. He showed a lot of heart in that fight. I think Parker could be next. That would be a great fight to see. I saw that Wilder was calling him out but I don't think it's realistic yet. That would be a good idea for next year.

On Canelo, he has let me down at times. There's stuff that all my favorite fighters do that I don't agree with. I don't think he's all to blame for it. Oscar Dela Hoya is bad for him. It looks like he's protecting him right now.

Champion97's picture

No worries.

I believe everybody thinks that way, and why wouldn't they?, they see a champion who's supposed to be one of the best on the planet losing to an underestimated challenger, they want to see the hard done by athlete have the opportunity of another contest, and with these challengers not being one of the best, and this scenario occurring a few times, whilst others who are considered up there are impressing big every time, winning more than decisively, people aren't likely to give Garcia a chance against somebody like Thurman or Porter. I think it's about pride, and because when everybody calls for a rematch, Angel Garcia (because it's never Danny who refuses to have rematches) feels as if him and his team are being bullied into the fight, that isn't the case, but he has issues, and he has a lot of unnecessary leverage over his son, I don't think much of him a trainer, he doesn't impress me on the tactical front, I believe Danny Garcia should move on, and find a new trainer. I don't believe Thurman vs Garcia is close. To be honest, I think most would, I think the fight may be a an unwise idea, meaning that if Kell Brook is keen to move up to light middleweight sooner rather than later, then the fight may not be fair, it cause problems on either side, Brook, because the risk of unavoidable dehydration and pre fight fatigue, which would be a massive disadvantage against him, and Thurman, because it could be the case, that Kell struggles to make the weight to an extent, but not so much that he is lumbered with significant physical advantages, and if he was to gain a vast amount of weight in the 48 hours (approximately) between the weight in and the fight, then Thurman would be lumbered with the disadvantage of fighting a man who is a lot bigger and stronger than him, so much so that they shouldn't be competing in the same weight, and let's say Brook weighed in at 149, he would lose his title in the scales, he would probably be fined heavily, but the fight would still take place, and you can imagine how ,uh of a disadvantage this could create for both, more mentally for Brook, more physically for Thurman. I think it is wise to eliminate Kell Brook as a top fighter in the welterweight division, and add him as one in the light middleweight division, because he has made it very clear that that is his weight category, and like I said before, just look at that division, Demetrius Andrade, Jermall Charlo, Jermell Charlo, Erislandy Lara, Saul Alvarez, Liam Smith, are all on impressive winning streaks at the highest level if not undefeated, which the majority are, and Austin Trout, Vanes Martirosyan, and John Jackson are still great fighters, and a challenge for anybody, especially Austin Trout, I think Kell should make the weight alteration sooner rather than later, so ideally, right after the Vargas fight. I think the rematch between Thurman and Porter should be next, and in the long run, Errol Spence, Tim Bradley, Amir Khan, these are all great potential match ups with Thurman and/or Porter. Something to bear in mind is the fact that Keith Thurman will be facing David Avanesyan next, fans out there aren't likely to like that, but that's the way it is, I'd love to see that fight, Avanesyan was absolutely brilliant against Shane Mosley, what a massive statement that was, he defeated a very declined Mosely, but he still defeated Shane Mosley, and quite easily in the end, I think Thurman vs Porter II is definitely an option, but further into the the future.

That's exactly what I thought you said, looking at your scorecard (which I realise you created after you submitted this comment) you gave every round to Joshua, and I have to say, unless boxing specialising journalists from the Guardian and the Telegraph (who know they're boxing to an extent, not as much as they think they do, some know more than others, but they can be reliable sources, especially when the matter in question is simple) were extremely inaccurate in their descriptions, there is no way of making the valid case that Breazeale won one round, let alone three. I think Parker not only could be next but is almost certainly going to be next, I think he'll stop his next opponent early, I believe Parker should be next in a sense, meaning that looking at the Charles Martin fight, in the scenario that Joshua fights a decent, world class opponent who provides a statement for the other side by being defeated, and Joshua wins, and impresses, then Parker should be his next opponent, but let's not forget that Joshua has had two fight time slots wasted on over matched opponents who couldn't provide a challenge for him, and given the fact that he still has a lot to learn, still shows a lot of susceptibilities frequently, and is clearly under challenged on a general basis, I think Parker should be a another flight down the line, Parker should not be written off, and could well cause the upset over Anthony Joshua, I believe the fight would be extremely competitive, I think it would go the distance, it would be a great chance for both to learn, I think Joshua would win, but not in anything like the way he won all his other fights, I believe Joshua would be wise to step up his opposition immediately, if that means facing Joseph Parker next, then great, if that means facing Joseph Parker in the early months of 2017, even better, the first of those two is more likely.

He has let everyone down in my opinion, he needs to stop taking advantage of his ability to manipulate the weight situation, I'm in the same boat, but that can be a case of making a bad situation good, it is a chance for you to show yourself to be a loyal supporter. I agree, I think he is often mislead and misguided, he has a rebellious, mischievous side to him, and I think when he's encouraged in the wrong way, that takes full advantage of this, it does, does he tempt the judges to show official bias towards Alvarez by using financial bait?, I don't know, and I don't think De La Hoya will be caught if he's guilty of this, nor do I think people will stop accusing him of he's innocent, the frequency of the illegitimacy, ridiculously generous and seemingly biased scorecards in favour of Alvarez is suspicious, there's no getting away from that.

In all honesty I like Angel garcia, I think he's a funny guy and everything, but sometimes he just says some ridiculous things. I don't like that he doesn't like giving the rematches to fights that should happen. There was an interview of him saying the best fighting the best. He said why fight a Porter or Thurman when he could fight a salka. I thought that was a very stupid thing to say and kind of disappointing. I want to see Danny and these big fight but I think his dad doesn't wanting him fighting the best and will try to influence him on doing this. I think he knows deep down he can't beat a Thurman or Porter. I didn't know that Brook was struggling with his weight. Then if that's the case maybe have both Thurman and Brook move up to 154 and fight. Or maybe Brook should forget about Thurman, and look at fighting the big names at light middleweight. I completely forgot that Avanesyan is getting the opportunity to fight him next. I still have to watch his fight with Mosley to see how his skills are. I would still favor Thurman to win that fight though.

There were reporters that said that Breazele won some rounds? I agree I think Parker should be next. It's the most realistic fight that can be made right now and a good test for both of them. I think it will either go to distance or have an 11th or 12th round ko. But I would give the edge to Joshua in this fight. Also what do you think of Joshua vs Wilder? Who would you favor if they fight within a year or so?

He has let a lot of people down. Like I have seen fans from his own country go against him. I think if he keeps fighting these fights like Amir Khan or Liam Smith (Not saying they're bad but they're fights he's supposed to win). he will lose his name in the eyes of diehard boxing fans and casuals. He will lose the title of the face of boxing. I really think there is something sketchy going on with Oscar and the judges giving him these bad decisions. When I first got into boxing, I really liked Oscar as a fighter but the stuff he's does and says as a promoter is making me lose respect for him.

Champion97's picture

Fair enough, but based on what you say, I think young an see why I and most people don't. I think Brook vs Thurman at 154 is unrealistic in all honesty, there's no apparent reason why Keith Thurman would move up, he's not a big welterweight, and he seems very comfortable at welterweight, of course, if it turned out that Thurman also had reason to make an upward change in weight, and he was also to move up, then the fight would be a fantastic idea, but if that doesn't happen, then the fight shouldn't happen. The latter of those two suggestions from you was by far the most sensible, that's exactly what he should do. So would I, but people shouldn't write Avanesyan off, Avanesyan is very good at sustaining a high punch out put, he's very recuperative, he's very good at working his way in and out of range, I can't call him a predominant outside fighter or inside fighter, he does both so well, lack of head movement is a weakness, he's quite a susceptible opponent, and I think he's readable, I can't see Thurman really struggling in what I believe will be a one sided victory.

No, the opposite, I will see the fight when I can. Like I say, it's a risk for Joshua, but it's also a risk that's definitely worth taking, I think Joshua and Parker will expose each other's inexperience, but in the end, they will bring out the best in each other, I can see there being a lot of respect in that fight, I believe both Parker and Joshua are capable of being the best heavyweight on the planet one day, besides Tyson Fury, who I believe is the best heavyweight who has ever lived, and the best heavyweight we will see for the next few decades. Joshua vs Parker is so interesting, there are two completely different ways of looking at it, on the one hand you have Joshua, whom has the amateur pedigree like Parker does not have, and the clear physical advantages such as height and reach, and physical superiorities such as strength, apparent power, he's much the bigger man, on the other hand, Joseph Parker has faced an opponent who not only took him 12 rounds, but was an opponent who only loses to the best, Carlos Takam was a great test, and a real challenge, Parker completing those 10 rounds against Sherman Williams probably did wonders for him in terms of experience, the only opponent of Anthony Joshua who you could possibly compare to Carlos Takam is Dillian Whyte, and his conditioning was considerably poor for the Joshua fight, and although he was dangerous, and a serious challenge for Joshua in the first few rounds, the body shots from Joshua knocked everything out of him in rounds 4 and 5, and his fatigue changed his ability massively, so Joshua only had to cope with the pressure for a few rounds, whereas Parker came through Takam, with a very well conditioned Takam dangerous for 12 rounds, this was a fantastic experience for Joseph Parker, and a great chance for him to learn, a chance Joshua has not had, I don't think Joshua will stop Parker, I think he'll out point him, maybe a combination of 115-113 and 116-112.

I love the idea of Wilder vs Joshua, the fight may be hard to make, because of the complicated negotiation situation, both would consider themselves the A-side, and both would want certain aspects to be on their terms, but I think as long as any disagreements don't involve anything like random drug tests, the fight should get the green light. I think Wilder vs Joshua is a 50/50 fight, right now, I give Wilder the edge, but there isn't a lot in it, the slight difference right now is experience, but I have to say, I don't agree with Lou DiBella's recent comment, suggesting that Joshua is nowhere near ready for Wilder, and the fight isn't close yet, that's not exactly what he said, but his comment was along those lines, in all honesty, Wilder also has a lot to learn, he may be 30, but he spent an awful amount of his earlier career time defeating over matched opponents who couldn't withstand his offence for long enough for Wilder to gain any significant amount of experience, and through no fault of his own, he may have a similar problem to the one Mike Tyson had when he was stepping up, Wilder certainly showed a lot of inexperience against Szpilka.

That was a suggestion that they both go up to 154 and fight. It's probably very unlikely to happen at light middleweight. Also if Thurman is comfortable at welterweight, then he should just stay there. There would be no point in moving up. I'm still thinking the fight can still happen at welterweight. Brook says after Vargas, he wants Thurman next which is a good sign. I still have to watch some of Avensyans fights before I make an assessment of him. Maybe I'm being unfair on him and not giving him a fair shot. But Thurman is one of the best welterweights in the world, so I would imagine he wouldn't have a tough time with him.

It is a huge test for the both of them. There biggest test for them to date would be each other. I believe that Joshua is closer to being the best on the planet than Parker is. I might be overrating Joshua but I think he's a top 3 Heavyweight right now. I think he has the power to beat most elite Heavyweights. But Parker is still a top 10 heavyweight and can be the future of the Heavyweight division. I don't believe Tyson Fury is the best Heavyweight of all time, but I definetly think he is the best Heavyweight right now and the best Heavyweight since Lennox Lewis. And the entertainment he brings is good for boxing. I was disappointed when the fight got postponed. I was really looking forward. You can't blame him for wanting to because the pictures I saw of his ankle looked bad and he would of been fighting at a major disadvantage.

That would be a great idea but that would be very difficult to make. You can't go wrong with either as the A side but I hope that gets figured out. I agree I think that Joshua is ready for top level competition. I noticed that he was more patience in the Breazele and looked more mature. That would be good against Wilder because he can get reckless at times and I think that Joshua would capitalize off that big time. One thing about Mike Tyson was that sometimes he didn't train as hard. Like for the Buster Douglas fight, when he was in Japan he really didn't train hard and lost focus and ended up getting knocked out.

Also I would like to make another fight recommendation for you. Micky Ward vs Emannuel Agustus is a must see fight. It's up there with Hagler vs Leonard and fights like that.

Champion97's picture

I can't properly reply to this now, because I'm a bit rushed, but I don't want you to think I've zoned out of the conversation, because I'm very interested to keep up this discussion, I'll reply to your latest assessment later. BTW, thanks for the fight recommendation.

Champion97's picture

I know that's what you meant, but it's not wise, because as I explained last week, the instigating reason for moving up in weight should be physical, not opportunistic. You're right, he should, and there are some great fights at welterweight for him, Spence, Porter (again), Khan, Bradley, and who knows? Maybe Crawford and/or Postol will make an upward change in weight at some point, it's not something I would necessarily expect, but it's a possibility. Kell Brook shouldn't fight Keith Thurman, because like I say, weight is an issue, I get the sense that Thurman feels he would be more comfortable at light middleweight one day, there may not be much or even anything in this, but I know Thurman is eager to avenge an amateur defeat to Demetrius Andrade, obviously, if in his own time, and the right time, Thurman was to move up, then I would be all for the fight, but until the weight situation is appropriate, I'm strongly against the fight, I'm aware that Kell has recently said he wants to fight Thurman next, and I don't doubt that he is tempted, but I think he wouldn't have confirmed his decision to move up to light middleweight (which he has), if he had any doubts about moving up in weight,

I believe so too, but there is far less in it than casual fans realise, and I believe less in it than you think, of course, we can all be wrong, and there is a chance I'm wrong and you're right on, I think Joseph Parker is more than merely in the top 10, I would put him in the top 6 on the planet, I want to put Joshua in the top 3, but I don't feel I can, just yet, because for a start you have Tyson Fury, then you have Deontay Wilder and Luis Ortiz, who I believe have experience as the difference, it wouldn't be wise to forget, Klitschko may have looked bemused, befuddled, and lost against Fury, but that's because he made to look that way, he's still Klitschko, I believe he could still do just as good a job of beating Haye, Wach, Jennings, Pianetta etc, and let's not forget, although guilty of certain boxing abusing up crimes he may be, Alexander Povetkin is still one of the best on the planet, and again, the predominant difference is experience, I'm not trying to protest the inaccuracy in the statement that Joshua is in the top three in the world, I'm just explaining why I don't believe he is, just yet, I do believe he will be one day. Many agree with you, and it isn't something that can ever be definitively proven either way, but I believe Tyson Fury is the best heavyweight that has ever lived, and absolutely has to be in the top 10 in the world currently, I believe he's in the top 5, and I will always be happy to explain why, whilst I'm happy to listen to the valid and interesting opinions of those who disagree. There was no way he could have stepped into the ring with an injury like that, the idea is ludicrous, I bet you anything he didn't decide to pull out when he sustained the injury, but there's absolutely no question about it, withdrawing from the fight was the right decision.

I didn't actually mean to say that, I most definitely don't think Joshua is ready for the best, if that's what you mean, I think he has a lot to learn, I don't think he will be truly ready for Wilder or Ortiz for at least two years, and I don't think Parker should be next, like I say, he hasn't yet faced a an opponent who is anywhere near the top, he showed a lot of inexperience against Dillian Whyte, I'm sure he has learnt a lot from that fight, but since, he hasn't been challenged, and there isn't a lot you can learn from fighting two opponents who are inferior to a couple of your previous opponents, because I can't see how you can argue Dillian Whyte isn't the best opponent of Anthony Joshua so far, like I say, I won't be satisfied Joshua is ready for the best in the division until I've seen him against somebody of the calibre of Carlos Takam, Artur Szpilka, Bryant Jennings, Johann Duhaupas, or even somebody more like Tony Thompson, Malik Scott, or Sherman Williams, Charles Martin and Dominic Breazeale, are both poor opponents, there's no getting away from that, something that I think says a lot is the fact that he's won 7/7 pre stoppage rounds in his last two fights (world title fights), and every single one of these rounds with ease, this is one of the telling factors as to why he clearly isn't being given the opportunity to learn enough to prepare himself for the real fights, so it's difficult to say he's ready for the best in the division, I agree, he wins every time, he wins by knock out every time, he's a physical specimen, he looks so dangerous, you can't imagine somebody beating him at any physical aspect of the sport, he always wins, and it always seems easy, his fights make you struggle to believe he isn't one of the best in the world, but that is the way he has been made to look, I won't be surprised if Parker beats him if that's his next fight, I can definitely see him being made to look ordinary at times in that fight. I haven't seen Joshua vs Breazeale, but it's one thing to look mature, and patient against somebody like Dominic Breazeale, and another to box truly well against a world class opponent, which Breazeale is not, he didn't come close to winning a round, which was no surprise, how long the fight lasted is the only thing that can surprise you. I don't think it's a simple as that, something I notice is that Wilder throws lifesaver like punches, with little intelligence in them, when he has his opponent in a lot of trouble, and he knows when this is, I don't believe an opponent 'playing possum' (if you like) works against an intelligent opponent like Wilder, I do think he's good at knowing when not to throw punches, as he showed against Szpilka, it's just, he can over reach, over commit, and throw himself off balance (which doesn't always make him vulnerable), when he has an opponent in trouble, Anthony Joshua himself (as he showed against Whyte) can also over commit physically at the wrong times, although I do realise his personal relationship with Dillian Whyte affected his ability to perform to his full current potential in that fight, something we should consider is that Joshua may have looked educated, methodical, sensible and mature against Martin and Breazeale, when he was in against opponents who were classes below him, and could pose no threat or challenge to him whatsoever, but how would he cope with the pressure of being behind?, how would his temperament serve him?, would he get reckless? These are questions overrated, dare I say it, rubbish opponents like Dominic Breazeale can't answer, maybe Carlos Takam and/or Johann Duhaupas can, it looks like Joshua's opponent will be Parker, and these questions will be answered by him, the fight will definitely teach us a lot, assuming it goes ahead. I know, I think that had a lot to do with his personal problems.

Those are good fights for Thurman at Welterweight. I think Amir Khan needs to get a couple fights in before he fights a Thurman or Porter. I think for Khan that the Brook fight will never happen now considering Brook might move up soon. But seeing Crawford and Postol in the welterweight divison would be even more exciting. I think Crawford can dominate the welterweight division if he makes the decision to move up. And Thurman moving up to light middleweight would be interesting.

True I think I would put Parker just outside the top 5. I would definitely put Joshua in the top 5 Heavyweights. It's hard for me to make a ranking of the heavyweights because you can make a case for most of them. That would be cool if you told me why you think Tyson Fury is the best Heavyweight of all time. For me, I don't rank current fighters until they are at the very end of their careers, and Fury's 27 and that's hard to rank him on the all time list. But, for the injury, that was a good move on postponing a fight. Do you know what date they are rescheduling the fight for?

I think that Joshua is ready for Parker next. But fighters like Fury, Wilder, Ortiz and others should happen late 2017 early 2018. I would say that White is Joshua's best toughest. In terms of learning and stuff like that. That was the first fight he was really in trouble I remember. Even though he looked inexperienced in that fight, he learned a lot from it. Like not coming in so reckless and what to do when you're hurt, and got some expierence going far into a fight. That is true he did look like more composed against the over challenged opponent. Martin should've gave a challenge to Joshua but it looked like he quit after he got floored. I remember people saying that Martin would be to slick for Joshua and Martin would beat him, and it didn't go that way. On Wilder, he does throw those punches that get him off balance. I think that Joshua could capitalize off that big time. If for some reason he doesn't fight Parker next, Takam or Duhaupas would be great fights for him.

By the way what is up with that Oscar Rivas guy? He was supposed to fight Mansour next month on the Wilder vs Aerrola undercard and now Mansour is fighting Gerald Washingtion. This isn't the first time he got pulled out of a fight. I remember you told me he was fighting Gerald Washingtion and that got cancelled and I think Washingtion ended up fighting Chambers.

Champion97's picture

I have a busy day ahead of me, so I can reply properly until later, but I have time to answer a couple of questions now, I believe Fury vs Klitschko will take place late September - early October, and Oscar Rivas, I'm not sure, but I believe he suffers from issues with his eye.

Ok that's fine. I just got tickets to my first live fight. I'm going to see Stevenson vs Williams Jr. next month should be a good fight.

Champion97's picture

Absolutely, good thinking, I think a fight against perhaps Mike Alvarado, a rematch against Chris Algieri is a possibility, the first fight didn't disappoint, and I'm sure Algieri would take that opportunity, maybe Brandon Rios, maybe Diego Chaves, maybe Robert Guerrero, there are a lot of options. I know, it's a shame, I'd be surprised if they ever showed the other any respect now, I suppose they should just keep well away from each other from now in, and live their own separate lives. I don't want to get your hopes up about that, it's definitely not likely to happen for a while, but it's an exciting possibility. Again, Thurman moving up in weight isn't something you should raise your hopes about, but it would be so interesting.

I'll definitely go along with that, and I believe he will over take some who are above him when his career progresses. It is, you just have to gather the facts, analyse the complexity, and build up and justify your opinion. OK, well my full analysis on this is far too long for me too tell you everything, but I will state some key points, for a start, Tyson Fury stands out from any other heavyweight because whilst he is 6'9 and when in shape, 18 stone (which is 252 lbs in American measurements), his lateral movement is fantastic, his agility is something most don't acknowledge, his foot speed is superb, to be able to move the way he does, when your his size, is not something I've ever seen any other heavyweight do, whilst Lennox Lewis has always been a typical Heavyweight who did everything beautifully, and Mike Tyson was (whilst more technical than people realise) a predominantly physically focused fighter, who used his power as a threat to his opponent, and had this as his best tool, whilst he was a relatively small heavyweight, he was still a heavyweight, and this contributed towards his power, Muhammad Ali stood out for his speed, in foot and hand, but he was 6'3 and I believe he competed at light heavyweight in the Olympics, and he was never a large heavyweight, Fury on the other hand carries his weight so well, and whilst athletes who are about 30 lbs lighter than him struggle with foot speed (because this is never expected to be a particularly impressive attribute from a heavyweight), this is something people either don't notice or do but don't think it's particularly not worthy, which is wrong. Tyson Fury is capable what most heavyweights aren't, but he also does the heavyweight basics very well, long, well timed, commanding, heavy jab, big, very strong, is an extremely powerful puncher, he also has more heart (I believe) than any other fighter, he's a traveller, fighting to him is like painting to a child who grows up with artists as parents, Fury is an astonishingly well conditioned athlete (taking about Fury as a boxer, meaning what he looks like when he goes on holiday after fights and what kind of shale he's in is of absolutely no relevance or significance) and he has an iron chin, he isn't easily damaged in the ring, his stamina, for a man who lives the good life at the magnitude and on the kind of time scale he does, and for a man who weighs 18 stone, is exceptional, all I doing is praising him as a fighter, I'm not comparing him directly to any other heavyweight but I'm sure you notice that I'm not only establishing his ability to do what all great heavyweights can do so well, but explaining that he can do what no other heavyweight cam ever do, I've probably given you 5-10% (I would say 7%) of my analysis, it's just so long, I will continue at a later stage, one more thing I will say about Tyson Fury tonight, is that he rematches an opponent who was on a very impressive winning streak, a man who had made vast visual but also evident improvements physically, tactically, and technically since long to Fury over the course of 12 rounds, the fight was expected to be close, I edged Fury, in the way I would edge Joshua over Parker, and Fury out boxed, schooled, out fought, out classed, mentally, emotionally destroyed Chisora in an extremely one sided, beautifully boxed master class performance from Tyson Fury, which lasted 10 very impressive rounds, he boxed out of his stance for most of the fight, after a very difficult training camp with a very unfortunate circumstance, I can't think of any other heavyweight who I can say Ai believe could have ever done anything like that.

He's ready in that it isn't a foolish idea to have the fight next, but I feel as though it would be more ideal a little bit further down the line, for both, it's a risk, and there are reasons why it should wait. Joshua has at least 18 months before he is ready to face somebody like Ortiz, Fury, Wilder or anybody of that level in my opinion, which is pretty much what you said, so I agree with you on that. Dillian Whyte has to be the toughest opponent of his career so far. I don't think Joshua learned as much as you might think, a lot of his problems in that fight weren't genuine (meaning he himself was the problem in that fight to an extent), don't get me wrong, he learned a lot, but he didn't learn anywhere near as much as he needed to, that's a fact, and I'm sure he learned very little if anything from easily beating guys like Martin and Breazeale in extremely one sided fights. I agree with the second of those two statements, Joshua did adapt to having to sustain a certain pace of work for a much longer amount of time than he was used to, but I don't believe he learned anything new in terms of what to do when hurt, if you recall, Dillian Whyte couldn't sustain his attack, because he injured his shoulder, I believe it was a pre fight injury which he probably sustained from training the wrong way, maybe it was related to his conditioning, anyway, to an extent, Joshua was composed, and aware whilst he was in trouble, I know he had some hard times in his amateur career (which must have made him stronger), and he appeared to use this to help himself weather the storm, I don't think he learnt anything in this regard. To be honest, in a sense, it wasn't that he should have challenged Joshua, he was incapable, it's not his fault, he just isn't good enough to be in the same ring as Joshua, there was nothing he could have done, and I don't believe there is anything he could do in the future, you're right in the sense that he was expected to be a challenge, because it is (or should be) a joke to say a challenger can beat the champion (a young champion in his prime years), and it will be easy. People did say that, I think Fury placing a £1,000 bet on Martin stopping Joshua may have been a factor. Once he went down, he didn't really seem to take it seriously, he looked like he didn't really want it, definitely not enough, I think it was a case of him simply knowing he was in a mismatch, and on the embarrassing end rather than the under challenged end, he seemed to believe there was no point in continuing with the fight. Well said, I think three great examples for June 25 would have been Carlos Takam, Johann Duhaupas, or Bryant Jennings, these are three opponents who I guarantee he wouldn't have been able win every round easily against before stopping them if was to able to do this, which he was able to do against Breazeale, so obviously, that's a fight slot which Eddie Hearn wasted, I honestly think he intends to challenge Joshua, but he didn't intend to challenge him last week, I think after all the criticism after the Whyte fight, and all the refusal of credit from the fans after beating a very disappointing Charles Martin (not his fault, and more to the point, it proved nothing against him), he wanted Anthony to have that confidence boost one gets from winning easily, and in such a one sided way, nevertheless, I think Eddie Hearn was wrong, and the fight was always going to be a waste of time.

Now this is very interesting, when Wilder does take these risks, overreach, and occasionally throw himself off balance, it is when his opponent is hurt, and he knows it, I remember when he came over here, and he fought on the Khan vs Diaz bill in Sheffield, he stopped Audley Harrison inside one round, he hurt Harrison, and boy did he put everything into the stoppage, it was a good stoppage, but his follow up from stunning his opponent was messy, he nearly went down himself when he over reached badly with a right hand, if I remember rightly, he used Harrison as something to grab, just to get his balance back after nearly throwing himself onto the canvas, it is interesting because when he does this, all he is doing is giving his opponent a second extra recuperation time, delaying his own success, denting his own rhythm, and quite frankly, making a bit of a lemon out of himself, he isn't putting himself is a physically vulnerable position, susceptible and targetable, but not vulnerable, because when he's off balance, he's not so difficult to move physically for his opponent, but if he is knocked down when in a position of being ways to knock down, then a lot of the force of the shot that lands will be taken away, this is very hard to explain, but when you connect accurately, on the target of your opponent, and you hurt your opponent, you stiffen the legs, obviously, it's fantastic if you score a knock down, in this case, because their balance and posture, their body takes on the punch, and takes all the impact, but if a fighter is off balance, it wouldn't take a a phenomenal shot to knock them down, whatever happens, when off balance, the body isn't in a position to take all the impact of the punch, you could say the fall saves them from the weight of the punch, an interesting way of explaining this is comparing every day materials. So let's say you stand up a thick, tall piece of cardboard and a thick, tall piece of metal next to each other, and you turned on a fan (a fan which one uses to prevent discomfort form heat), this would blow the cardboard over, but not the metal, however you stand up these materials in winds so strong they move buildings, both the metal and cardboard will be blown over, but there will be a massive amount of impact from the metal working against gravity, whilst the cardboadd will just turn over like it would against light weight and pressure, this relates to the balance situation in boxing because if a fighter is off balance, it takes not a lot of power to knock them down, and because they go down so fast, and is such a high gear, the and I'm not saying being off balance shields you completely from being hurt, and Joshua would be a threat to Wilder if he landed in any situation. I don't think Joshua would be able to find the opportunity to capitalise upon Wilder's habit unless he was in trouble himself.

Having rambled on as much as I have about this and that, you are right in that Joshua is good at capitalising, I noticed that against Dillian Whyte, I think he's good at anticipating the specific weaknesses of his opponent which he is most easily going to be able to take advantage of, so I do think Deontay Wilder would be unwise to take any early and unnecessary gambles, I think Wilder has the tougher chin out of himself and Joshua, but I do believe Joshua has the power to hurt Wilder, and to be honest, I think he could knock him out, I think right now, Wilder beats him, inside 6 rounds, with the judges having had a tough night at work after 5, Joshua in 2 years time vs Wilder now, Joshua stops him, Joshua in two years (so 28 year old Joshua), vs a 32 year old Deontay Wilder in his prime, I think Wilder out points him narrowly, I believe now, or in 2 years time, there isn't much between Joshua and Wilder, and Joshua could easily beat him by making a couple of mistakes fewer than Deontay, the fight is a fantastic idea, I wouldn't want to see it just yet, but in a couple of years, definitely.

Good for you, I hope you have a good night, I've never gone to see a boxing fight live.

I forgot about Rios, Chaves and Alvarado as options for Khan. I heard Khan in an interview where he said he has 3 to 4 fights then he will retire. He should wait until his last fight to fight Brook. I think that would bring in a lot of money if he fights Brook for his last fight. But I don't think the fight will happen because of the possibility of Brook going to light Middleweight. I'm not really worried about Thurman going to light middleweight. It would be interesting to see the move but I know it's unlikely.

For any sport, I wait until the athlete is at the end of their career until I put them on an all time ranking. A lot of things can happen while an athlete during their career that might change something. Like injuries, or they fall off the radar or something like that. But I would say that Tyson Fury is the best Heavyweight right now. What he can do with his size is incredible. His movement is something else. He's also very versatile. I notice in some of his fights that he switches to southpaw and I only see a few fighters do that well just Like andre Ward and Terrance Crawford. The willingness of Fury to give rematches is something I like about Fury as well. By the way do you put Lennox Lewis in top 5 or top 10 heavyweights?

Yeah, I think it should be a while before those big fights are made for Joshua. I mean if they happen soon I won't be complaining. He was the problem in the Whyte fight and I think he knows that. I know he said in interviews that if he fights Martin like he does Whyte he will lose. So it's sounds like he's making adjustments. We'll just have to see if he does this in big fights. I think he learned more from the Whyte fight than anything. If I said he learned anything fighting Breazele and Martin then I made a mistake there. He really didn't from those fights. I meant to say he learned a lot from the Whyte and adjusted in other fights. It looked like Martin didn't deserve to be in the ring with Joshua. I don't understand how people picked him to win. People were making it sound like Martin is the one to beat him and he made it look easy. Those 3 fights that you mentioned are good fights for Joshua. He will definetly be challenged. I also think Bermaine Stiverne can be a good option. He has a good chin and it will show what Joshua can do if he possibly goes the distance. And if he knocks him out that would send a big message in my opinion. I remember he was in consideration to fight him but they chose Breazele instead.

Thank you,I can't wait to see this fight. I saw that Chad Dawson and Oscar Rivas are on the undercard. This is the first time I'm seeing Rivas fight so this should be good. Also what's your opinon on Adonis Stevenson? I know I probably asked you this before but I don't remember the response.

Champion97's picture

It is very easy to forget about boxers when they lose recognition from the public and pundits for whatever reason. I heard that as well, I think it would be nice to see him involved in a lot more fights than that, but I can't say he isn't worthy of a massive amount of praise whether he fights another 10 times, or retires now, I think even if he is planning on having only 3 more fights before retirement, he should still step up in opposition rather than leap up, the good news is, he wasn't let down by the safety regulations against Alvarez, he was knocked out with one punch, he didn't take a sustained set of punishment, and he's okay physically. Brook vs Khan is very unlikely, one wouldn't be wise to expect that fight, by all means hope for it, and it's good to have a little but of belief, but it isn't wise to expect that fight, for a start, they don't compete in the same weight category (and I know Brook vs Vargas has had and is still having its bumps along the road, I read the other day that Bradley vs Vargas II is likely to happen instead). That's the way to think, there really isn't a disappointing case scenario in this situation, if Thurman remains at 147 for a long time, and is involved in absolute mega fights at this weight, from a fan's point of view, this is great, and if he was to compete at 154, and be involved in absolute mega fights, that would be even better.

In all honesty, I think your very wise to do that, wiser than me in this case, that's for sure. That's a great point, I said when asked about Fury vs Joshua 5 years down the line, (because everyone is pretty interested in Joshua's potential vast future improvement), and although I made the points that Tyson Fury is also likely to improve massively in the future, and Fury is not much older than Joshua, but it will be interesting to see whether or not I'm correct to predict Fury to physically decline faster than Joshua, anyway, good thinking. Lewis makes my top 5 of all time, definitely, and he has to be in the top 10.

He did learn more from the Whyte fight than any other in his professional career so far, but that doesn't say much. Sorry no, you didn't, I was just laying everything down on the table and evaluating the situation. I know that's what you said, but I don't feel he learned much if anything from the Dillian Whyte fight, and that's because he fought foolishly, because of his personal relationship with Whyte. In all honesty and realism, he didn't, the IBF, we're absolutely ridiculous, not that they acted out of character of course, the Martin vs Joshua situation is an example of how stupid the common decisions of the IBF are. To be honest, I do understand, for a start, Tyson Fury backed Martin heavily to stop Joshua, so much he put £1, 000, Fury is now a very wealthy man, but that's still a lot of money to gamble with, I think because he was the world champion, and it wasn't common know that Joshua wasn't ready for the best in the division (and every title would be held by the top dogs in the division in a new ideal world), Martin was undefeated, he was one of those fighters who made you believe he could win, he's also one of those fighters who looks fantastic when in control, but I do agree, one must be amused by the notion that Martin could have beaten Joshua having seen their fight. That's not a ridiculous idea, because he has been a world champion, has taken Deontay Wilder 12 rounds, and as you said, has an absolute iron chin, but since losing to Deontay Wilder, he's looked poor, and hasn't really shown anybody the passion he had when he beat Chris Arreola, so I would like to see Stiverne impress at least one before he gets in the running for a fight against Joshua.

It's always good to have something to look forward to. I think Rivals has a lot of potential, and it already a great fighter, I hope his issues which have caused him to withdraw from fights don't dent his chances of fulfilling his potential in the future. Don't worry, I'm rubbish at not asking people the same questions repeatedly, I'm not a fan, and for one reason, he negated the chances of a fight against Sergey Kovalev, I don't like that when fights are delayed for whatever unknown reason, fans jump to the conclusion that one fighter is deliberately stopping the fight from happening, and when Adonis Stevenson destroyed the possibility of himself vs Kovalev, he didn't help this common issue, I think Stevenson may well be in the top 3 light heavyweights on the planet, and he's a fantastic fighter, who deserves a pot of respect for being a very successful world champion in his own right, but I think his desire to avoid the Kovalev fight was terrible, I don't like to accuse people of anything, but we all say his reaction to be being asked about Kovalev after a victory, he patently obviously avoided the question, I think he never genuinely believed he could have beaten Kovalev, the tactical, technical, and physical superiorities all lie with Kovalev (I believe, and I believe Adonis agrees although never by his own admission).

I agree, Khan should step up in competition before he retires. I think he should have a big fight to end his career. Maybe a Danny Garcia rematch. That's just a suggestion, I don't think that is likely though. I really lost interest in Khan vs Brook after. After Khan took that fight with Canelo, I knew that fight will never happen. I rather see Brook vs Vargas then a Bradley rematch. I'm not really interested in seeing the rematch but you can't blame Vargas for that.

It's always exciting to see how fighters improve in the future. There's a lot of possibilities that can happen in ones future it's interesting to see how it plays out. I honestly don't know who I think will decline faster out of Fury and Joshua. I agree Lewis is definitely a top 5 heavyweight of all time.

Ok that's good. Going into the Martin fight I was excited to see Joshua have a world title shot and hopefully get challenged. One of my statements was true that he would win the world title but, he wasn't challenged at all. That's also true that someone can say that Joshua isn't ready for a world title shot and picked Martin because of that reason. I haven't really seen much of Stiverne yet but if he gets another fight and he shows that he can be in the same ring as Joshua then that would be a good fight.

I remember you telling me to watch Rivas and I've been waiting on him to fight. I was really looking forward to that Mansour fight but it got called off. Now I get to see him live. Stevenson is one of my favorite fighters because he always has good fights, but I don't like how he handles the Kovalev situation. I would put him top 3 at light heavyweight. I can only see Ward and beating him in that division.

Champion97's picture

I don't see any reason why he won't do just that. I agree, and I think he will, but I doubt Angel Garcia would ever let Khan anywhere near Danny, I have absolutely no idea where Garcia goes from here, he's in a lot of trouble (well, I believe he is), sooner or later he has to step up to the mark, I think a lot of Thurman's recent antagonism of Garcia is staged, but I do think some of it is genuine. In all honesty, I would rather see Bradley vs Vargas II, the sooner Brook moves up to 154, the better in my opinion, it's clear his mind is made up, and there are many things which are getting in the way of Brook vs Vargas, besides, if he stays at 147, then the fight after his next is likely to be Errol Spence (assuming he comes through Bundu), that's a 50/50 fight, I'd edge Brook through pretty much experience alone at the moment, but there precious little in it either way, I guarantee he'll lose that fight if he enters the ring with eh physical disadvantage of having unhealthily punished his body into losing more weight than it should, Brook would be wise to get his move up in weight over with, like I say, now that Mayweather and Pacquiao have retired, and so has Marcos Maidana (although this has been apparent for a very long time now), the light middleweight division may be more competitive than the welterweight division, so Brook would be very silly to stay at welterweight for the expected reason. I think Bradley vs Vargas II would be really interesting.

Absolutely, my favourite saying is, 'you never know what the future holds'. Yes, and that's very exciting, you just don't know what's going to happen, I think Tyson Fury will decline faster, for the reason that he takes advantage of his time between his last fight and his training camp for the next fight, and I think the toll this kind of fitness method can take on a human's body is something to consider, then again, maybe Fury will retire at age 33 or 34, in which case he retires before any fighter starts to physically decline, so it won't matter.

Of course you were, we all wanted to see Joshua challenged, but let's face it, he shouldn't have had a world title shot, not at that stage, and in the mind of any boxing follower, after the inexperience Joshua showed against Dillian Whyte, any world champion had to be at the very least a challenge. I agree, but I'm against the idea of Joshua vs Stiverne unless Bermane impresses, I think that's more a convenient fight for Joshua rather than a truly worthwhile situation.

This is very interesting, so do you think Stevenson would have the beating of Kovalev?

Yeah true. It seems like Angel has no interest in giving Khan a rematch. By the way, I know that the Brook vs Vargas is having trouble being made do you know whats stalling the fight? I'm really looking forward to that fight and it's a shame that it's having difficult being made. Also on the topic of moving up in weight why do you think Roy Jones move up so many classes? Because I'm sure he didn't have trouble making those weight classes like Light Heavyweight and Heavyweight.

That is true with Fury. He has longer training camps than others and that can take a toll on a persons body.

You are probably right he might of not have deserved a title shot, but I'm happy for him to get a great opportunity like that. Joshua vs Stiverne should happen if Stiverne impresses his next fight. I like the Duhaupas and Takam options. They are both tough fighters and won't be out of there early. I don't think Jennings is ready for a fight with Joshua just yet. He had two straight losses and needs to get some wins to get a Joshua fight. He's still a solid fighter.

I messed up on my wording of that. I meant to say I only see Ward and Kovalev beating Stevenson. I see Stevenson at the third spot in the Light Heavyweight division and beating everyone but Ward and Kovalev.

Champion97's picture

And you can see why, without Khan making the mistakes he made in the first fight, it's hard to see how Garcia would work around the speed, high output in fast succession, and most importantly, range control of Amir Khan, I think he would be defeated very comfortably indeed, even if he was to be successful with his tactics as to winning get the fight, he would have to resort to taking punches to land them, it would just be nasty, gruelling, difficult (and much more then they have to make it for themselves) night. I don't know, but I believe it's financial disagreements, and I'm also aware of some concerns in terms of the judges from Jessie Vargas, and I mean directly from him, I think it is personal between Brook and Vargas. To be honest, I'm not particularly interested in Brook vs Vargas, I would much rather see Bradley vs Vargas II. I think Roy Jones has had the time to compete at a poo many weight classes because he has been a boxer for too many years, heavyweight was never going to be the category for him, to be honest, I don't know which weight category he would be most comfortable at, but the weight that he should be fighting at doesn't exist, he should have his licence taken away, and anyone who disagrees, is arguing an invalid case.

Yes, but what I mean is, it also takes a toll one's body when they indulge on unhealthy foods, rapidly increasing their weight in an unhealthy way, it's fine to put on a few when in holiday after a fight, but to put on the amount of weight Fury puts on when between train camps, is not something I agree with, he shouldn't be having to lose 3 stone after a break from his training, this is the reason why one a boudoir consider the possibility that he will physically decline faster than Anthony Joshua, who I don't believe puts on much weight when taking time off.

Oh me too, it wasn't scandalous that eh got the shot, just a little early in my opinion. I doubt he will, I don't think he has anything left to offer now, I think the Wilder defeat took a massive amount out of him, worst case scenario, I'm right, he still has so much to be proud of. That's a fair point, but I don't think that's reason to consider him unchallanging for a learning talent like Joshua, especially seeing as the Klitschko defeat boosted his confidence if anything, and the Luis Ortiz defeat, well Ortiz is one of the best heavyweights on the planet, but to be fair, that's a good point, although it own done unlikely to make much difference, it could well male some, and if Jennings was to have gotten a win under his belt, just to regain any lost confidence, he would have been more of a threat to Joshua, anyway, it's probably not so worthwhile to talk about this any more, because I'm taking about opponents who would have been ideal opponents for Joshua on June 26, The Parker fight is very likely to be his next, I'm still very disappointed in Eddie Hearn for making Joshua vs Breazeale, it was a foolish move.

Oh right, I believe so too, it really is a shame that the fight didn't happen and probably won't in the future, but look on the bright side, Ward vs Kovalev more than makes up for it.

I never saw the Khan vs Garcia fight but I heard that Khan was winning until he got knocked out. If he can avoid big shots this time against Garcia, I think he'll win. With Brook and Vargas, it looks very personal between them. They have been trash talking each other on social media and everything. In my opinon, I still rather see Vargas vs Brook. I think that this is a good fight for Brook since he hasn't had a tough fight since Porter and this is a good opportunity. Roy Jones was one of the best middle and super middleweights ever maybe the best, but when he moved to heavyweight it got bad. He was never the same after he got knocked out by Tarver and that's a shame. I totally agree, he needs his boxing license taken away now before he gets seriously hurt.

Ok, that makes sense. That would have some effect on Fury's body and most likely make him decline faster.

I can see that. Also I just heard that a fight with Joshua and Stiverne might happen november 9th. I heard Eddie Hearn wants to try to get another fight in for Joshua before he fights Parker and that would probably happen next year. On Bryant Jennings, I think he's good but just needs to get some wins before he gets a Joshua fight. I saw that Luis Ortiz is fighting on the Canelo vs Smith against Alexander Ustinov. Should be a good fight.

Kovalev vs Ward is the better fight then him vs Stevenson. I wish Stevenson was willing to fight him because I would say Stevenson should fight the winner of Ward vs Kovalev but it looks unlikely.

Champion97's picture

He was, and in a very impressive way, Garcia was struggling to achieve the goal of putting any kind of a dent in Amir Khan, although I do think Khan threw too many punches, and wasted some steam, Khan spoofed the opportunity to Garcia in my opinion, I don't think people have ever really acknowledged the stupidity of Khan in that fight, it wasn't gust the way he through the long, wide, wayward right uppercut, it was the way he planted his feet, dug his heels in, and put so much into a shot that was throw out of his character, he has never been one to try to back up his opponent with one shot, it just isn't his style, to be fair, the accuracy of Garcia, was fantastic, the way he capitalised (although it wasn't the hardest of mistakes to capitalise upon, seeing as it was such a foolish error) was excellent, he caught Khan in the most vulnerable area, but he also rattled his jaw, and seeing as Khan was so rooted into the canvas, he took the full weight and impact of the shot, and with him not having the most durable chin in the world, and more importantly, not seeing the shot coming, he was in a world of trouble, and his recuperation was something that required more time than he was allowed, and so in his still dazed condition, he was in a vulnerable and susceptible position, and so, Garcia sustained his pressure and punishment, pulling off the stoppage. I know, I think it's because as champions, both with official titles, they both feel as though they're the A-side, and although I think Vargas has accepted he is the B-side if there is one, I think he isn't one to be taken for a ride, I think he is he'll bent on the fight being partially on his terms, he wants a say in the judges, he wants a say on who referees the fight, but at the same time, Kell will definitely feel as though he has the right to call the shots, although I'm surprised the fight is struggling to be made this much, you see, Eddie Hearn is great at compromising in situations like this, and striking deals with other promoters, whereas if Frank Warren was Brooks promoter, this situation would be more predictable. I think it's time to let Brook vs Vargas go, true, and that is an issue, but Vargas isn't the only opponent who can challenge him, there are loads of opponents who are on the same level as Vargas, Garcia, Rios, Chaves, Broner (if he comes back up to 147), Algieri, and the end of the day, this is all irrelevant, because Brook won't be at this weight for much longer, I think he should forget about the Vargas fight, and move straight up to 154, it's never a good idea to ignore weight issues in this sport, if he's made his mind up (which I know for a fact he has), he should get on with it, now, like I say, the Vargas fight would be a chance to compete in a challenge, but he'll get loads of opportunities that are better at 154. Bradley vs Vargas II would be absolutely fantastic in my opinion, I don't think Vargas would have stopped Bradley in the 7 seconds of the fight which were taken away from us, but I do think he was about to out a stamp on a fantastic round, that was a brilliant fight, and there would be so much in it for both fighters, what an achievement for the winner. I know he was, it's become common knowledge that he's continuing with his career when he factually shouldn't be.

I read about that too, I feel Eddie Hearn needs to let Joshua cycle without stabilisers now, let hum swinging without armbands, Bermane Stiverne is not a sufficient challenge, I'll be disappointed if that fight is to be made. That's wise, like I said, I believe it would be more ideal to wait another few months before we see Joshua vs Parker, and I would prefer to see that fight in the Spring of 2017, but it's unwise to fill the wisely created spot with a contest against Stiverne, I understand that you may be confused at me praising Duhaupas for staying in there with Deontay Wilder for 10 rounds, and I don't seem to be giving Stiverne his seemingly due credit for going the distance with Deontay, but it's good to think about streaks of success in this sport, and also, how we think certain fights are likely to affect a certain fighter, and if we evaluate this situation, since their fight, Deontay Wilder has fought three times, and it should have been four, Stiverne has fought once, now when you lose in a one sided contest, and then fight once in 18 months, you have to impress in this long period of time, and being knocked down, and losing 3-4 rounds (in a 10 round scheduled fight) against Derric Rossy (who's record currently stands at 30-12, and he lost inside one round against Audley Harrison, which is embarrassing if your his worst enemy, he has been the distance with better fighters, but he's still not a very good fighter at world level) is not impressive at all, and if we look at his record, before he defeated Arreola (who I'm even less impressed by), there's little if anything that's really impressive there, whereas Duhaupas, he seemed to grow in confidence after doing better against Wilder than expected, and he has since knocked out Robert Helenius. That's a fair point, but there's absolutely no shame in losing to Luis Ortiz, and he impressed me against Wladimir Klitschko, well, to an extent, anyway, I don't think Jennings should stand out as an opponent who should fight Joshua once he's faced so a class above, I'm just saying he would have been ideal for June 25, and would be ideal for November, but in terms if his career, and rebuilding to make a Joshua fight more wise for him, and doing this by getting at least one win under his belt, is a different topic, but nevertheless, I agree. That's a good match up, but I don't consider Ustinov much better than Jennings, and I would like to see Ortiz be more challenged soon, although it has to be said, Ustinov is a good solid opponent, and Ortiz is being challenged more than Joshua, and therefore, in a position to learn more, I believe Ortiz is the second best heavyweight on the planet at the moment.

That's very unlikely indeed, I think they'll be a rematch between Ward and Kovalev, am I putting the cart before the horse?, maybe, but I can see the fight creating the highly likely and worthwhile option of a rematch, so I don't think Stevenson will come into the equation, I think he will really struggle to keep himself in the limelight when all the attention is on Ward vs Kovalev, I'm not sure what his plan could possibly if he won't fight either in the future.

Hey I'm sorry but I'm going to be busy today and maybe tomorrow. I'll respond as soon as I can.

Champion97's picture

No worries, cool, whenever suits you.

Also I just heard Brook is fighting golovkin. What do you think of that? Personally I don't know what to make of it.

I still have to watch that fight so I won't say much right now. Hopefully Khan gets his rematch. I guess we don't have to talk about Brook fighting Vargas anymore since he's fighting Golovkin which is kind of disappointing. I think that he shouldn't be fighting at middleweight. Light Middleweight is the division for Brook since he outgrew Welterweight. Brook would've been better off fighting Lara, Jermall or Jermell Charlo, Andrade, or Julian Williams. I was disappointed that Golovkin couldn't get the Eubank fight. I heard that Eubank Sr wanted to have demands that were impossible.

So you think Joshua needs 1 more fight before Parker? Just not against Stiverne. I thought Stiverne would be a good option but not the best one. Duhaupas, or even Jennings is definetly a better option than Stiverne. I forgot that Stiverne fought only once since the Wilder fight and that probably won't be as good as the others. He'll show ring rust and won't really give him a challenge. For Duhaupas he's been pretty impressive since the Wilder fight. He's probably the most deserving out of the fighters we mentioned.

That's a possibilty to see a rematch, but we'll have to see how the fight goes. I know it's very unlikely of Stevenson fighting the winner of Ward vs Kovalev, but wouldn't it be interesting to see? Stevenson is getting older and there are some fighters in the light Heavyweight division like Beterbiev that might steal his spotlight.

Champion97's picture

I wouldn't expect it, I think Garcia will fight Berto next, as you can see, that's very convenient, because that's what his career has been so far, convenient, and I believe he's overrated, I do believe he rises to the occasion, and it's inevitable that we will always see the best of him when he fights someone of his ability or higher, but I still feel he's overrated. I'm not disappointed, I don't think weight will be a major issue in this fight, Kell was right to push for this fantastic opportunity, but I don't think he was wise to turn down the option of a catch weight situation, because as if it wasn't ambitious enough to move up two weight divisions, Golovkin can weight up to 5 lbs more than what he would have had to weigh had the catch weight situation been included in the fight deal, speaking of weight, I think it's very interesting, I think Kell Brook may have been struggling to make welterweight for a long time now, and I think we haven't seen this because all three of his last three fights have been mismatches, and all three of these opponents either had absolutely nothing to lose, or just didn't want to win enough (Bizier seemed so disinterested I almost found it amusing), so I think fighting at middleweight (despite not being the most sensible idea) won't be an issue for Brook. I agree, but boxers are opportunists, they grab big chances with both hands, so it doesn't surprise me that Brook chose to compete at middleweight to fight Golovkin, and anyway, he can always move down to light middleweight after the fight and fight the best in that division, for what it's worth, I believe he has the beating of all with the exception of Demetrius Andrade, and he gives even him a very hard night. To be completely honest, I was always baffled as to why on earth Chris Eubank Sr wanted his son anywhere near Gennady Golovkin at this stage of his career (what a same I failed to submit my analysis in why I strongly believe Eubank Jr is not yet mature enough to face Golovkin without doing himself an injustice), Eubank Jr?, of course, he's young, he's ambitious, he's 'hungry', but Sr?, he (like all parents) has always been overprotective over his son, I think he may have intended to prevent the fight, or at least, hold it up, which is why he demanded to have control over every aspect of the fight, he put Eddie Hearn in an impossible situation, demanding control over the timing, under card, security etc, and as the B-side!, that's not just unreasonable, that's ridiculous, and quite suspicious, there's now way a man as experienced as Chris Eubank would have made these demand and expect for the fight to still be made, you never know what goes on behind closed doors, maybe Mrs Eubank asked her husband to subtly spoil the fight to protect her baby.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that, but I think it would be beneficial and ideal if he was to compete innate contest against an opponent in between the calibre of Dominic Breazeale and Joseph Parker first. Don't get me wrong, that was a good suggestion from you, and to be fair, despite the points I made, Stiverne is still an ex world champion who went the distance with Deontay Wilder, that will always count for something. I completely agree, I think he is the most deserving because of his succession rate, but he doesn't have a big name, and I think as a promoter, you may worry Joshua vs Duhaupas wouldn't sell, although I stand by my opinion that Joshua vs Breazeale was a mistake, I've always understood why Eddie Hearn promoted the fight, Breazeale was big, strong, physically dangerous, great knock out ratio, talks well, makes you believe he can win, Joshua vs Duhaupas would be a fantastic idea, but I doubt it will happen, and from a financially beneficial perspective, I'm sure you can see why.

Yeah, like I said, I'm guilty of putting the cart before the horse, absolutely, which makes the fact that it probably won't happen all the more disappointing, absolutely, Beterbiev is a very talented fighter, and so far do good as a professional, after a stellar amateur career, he defeated Sergey Kovalev twice, it will be interesting to see just how much he progresses as his career goes on, I wonder if Stevenson would be interested in fighting Beterbiev.

I like him but I feel he is overrated to. Some of his best wins were when they were at the end of a certain fighters career. Like Eric Morales, if they fought prime vs prime I think Morales would beat him pretty easily. For Judah, I don't really know how he would've done in his prime against a prime Garcia. I think Judah's more skillfull but sometimes his work ethic fails him and he loses these big fights. I think this fight can only look good for Brook. Because they say he's taking a risk, no one (at least from what I heard) is giving him a chance so theres no pressure on him, and it's a huge leap in competition. If Brook wins that would be huge for him. I see no gain for Golovkin in this situation. If he wins everyone will say that he was supposed to win this fight, and if he loses the Canelo fight is pretty much done. This fight makes Golovkin look bad because him and his team criticized Canelo for fighting a welterweight in Amir Khan, and said Kell Brook is too small to fight him and ends up fighting him. I like GGG but I don't like what he's been saying and doing lately. I just feel Brook is better off at welterweight. But, I can be wrong he might be a good middleweight. I think if Eubank Sr wanted his son fighting Golovkin he should've seriously negoitated instead of negoitate and end up holding up the fight and it not happening. A positive of this is that Eubank Jr is going to get more expierence and fight someone else. They also might be doing this to hype up the fight and create a rivalry between Golovkin and Eubank Jr.

That is true, there is the business side of boxing. I mean if Hearn will make Joshua vs Breazele, I think that Joshua vs Duhuapas could be made. But I see where you're coming from.

Thats interesting, I didn't know that Beterbiev beat Kovalev twice. I think that Kovalev can beat him now. I also want to see how Beterbiev does in the future as well. Stevenson vs Beterbiev would be a good fight to see. Hopefully it can be made.

eubank talks a big game, but he is a ducker. as most middleweight contenders are right now

Champion97's picture

Round 1 - Could go either way
Round 2 - Porter
Round 3 - Could go either way
Round 4 - Thurman
Round 5 - Could go either way
Round 6 - Could go either way
Round 7 - Could go either way
Round 8 - Could go either way
Round 9 - Could go either way
Round 10 - Could go either way
Round 11 - Thurman
Round 12 - Thurman