Jesus Cuellar vs. Abner Mares Scorecard by mike25

scorecard by MIKE25



Jesus Cuellar

Abner Mares

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Champion97's picture

This is completely unrelated to boxing, but do you like Poirot?

This is very related to boxing, I believe if the media backs off him, and he isn't bullied into a rematch, Ward will just forget about boxing flr Christmas, but return stronger than ever in 2017, I think it would be a shame if the rematch didn't get made.

Never heard of it to be honest.

I 100% agree. He's getting no love by most in the boxing community. He sadly will be bullied into a rematch I feel, and if he doesn't give Kovalev a rematch everyone will lose their minds. It's a shame how people treat Ward. He's a likeable guy, has no criminal record, and a great fighter, what is their not to respect?

Champion97's picture

Hercule Poirot is my new profile picture, a great Belgian detective, and a living legend.

Golovkin vs Jacobs is official!!!

Champion97's picture

I think this will be the most difficult fight of Golovkin's career so far! You just can't beat a unification fight in boxing.

I love the fight. We'll finally see Golovin in there with a good amount of power. This is great.

Champion97's picture

Me too, yes, but mkre importantly, somebody who is a real middleweight, and somebody who has the skills to make good use of his power at this level, ans also, has other useful attributes to add to his power, Lemiuex, was a massive pucnher, but it didn't seem like he had any other weapon which could possibly be a threatvto Golovkin, and Kell Brook, well a horrible facial injury and being kn the wrong weight class saw to it that he couln't fight on even terms with Golovkin for very long. I believe Jacobs has the power, the skills and the heart to make this a very interersting fight, I can see him winning 2-3 rounds, maybe even more, and taking Golovkin where he's never been before, test his stamina, he may even be able to hurt Golovkin, itbwould be evty interesting to see how Golovkin takes it. I think Golovkin will stop Jacobs late.

I forgot to mention that the full middleweight part in there. He is a step up from Lemieux that's for sure. I hope that the winner gets the credit they deserve when they win. Something tells me if Golovkin wins they will discredit him by saying Jacobs has no chin and already got knocked out by Pirog. There's a chance I might get to see this fight live. I hope I can. Do you ever plan on seeing a live fight in the future?

Champion97's picture

Oh yes, but that is no insult to Lemiuex, Golovkin and Jacobs are two of the three best in the division in my opinion. Well just like always, ignore the muppets, and take notice of the people who are good willed enough, mature enough, intelligent enough, and knowledgeable enough to understand and appreciate the spprt of boxing. How do you see Golovkin vs Jacobs turning out? I might do, I want to live in the US one day, and I have more desire to see a fight at an arena in America than here in the UK. Are planning on going to see any more fights live?

I get what your'e saying. Lemieux is good but Jacobs is in a different league then him. I'm going to enjoy it for me and what it's worth and ignore the critics. I see Golovkin getting a late knockout with the scorecards being close. I only saw one fight and it was in Canada, but I want to see a fight in America and the Uk at some point. I'm trying to see Golovkin vs Jacobs or Thurman vs Garcia depending on where it's at.

Champion97's picture

That's right man, good on you, I'm doing the same, the more loyall, understanding, appreciative fans the sport has, the better. Me too, not sure I think the scorecards will be close (you could be right though), I think maybe 107-102, 108-101, but not extremely wide, and it's not a mismatch.

They are two fantastic fights. You heard about Povetkin getting a sixth round stoppage over Johann Duaphas?

We'll see when it comes fight night.

I heard about the stoppage. Not really impressed. Duaphas had no preparation or any notice to fight Povetkin and that was expected. He was in running shoes and not boxing shoes. My question is how did they get him to fight in such short notice?

Champion97's picture

We will see, and I for one, am very excited to do so.

I understand that. It is unsual, but that is not the first time I have heard of somebody wearing trainers instead of boxing boots, I did most of my sparring in trainers if I'm honest. It is difficult with short notice fights, there are some questions, is the fighter potentially good enough to be a challenging opponent? In this case, that question was answerable, byt there are some other questions, we know the subsitute hasn't had a proper training camp and done the right research, but have they been sitting on the coach for weeks?, have they been merely training in the gym everyday and keeping fit? Have they had good sparring? Were tgey expecting anything like this? How much do they want it? There are many questions we never know the answer to until the fight happens. To me, I guvs Duaphas credit for even fighting an unclean fighter, let alone on that kind of notice. Well that question answers another in my opinion. I'm very disappointed in Alexander Povetkin, and I' sure I'm not the only one.

I can't wait for it. Hopefully I'm able to go.

I understand people using regular shoes during sparring but I've never seen it in an actual fight. The big question for me is how did they get him a contract and in contact to fight within hours notice? Duhaupas might have been training but not for Povetkins style. I do give Duhaupas a lot of credit for going against an unclean fighter. I think there's something up with Povetkin and his team. He tested positive for two substances.

I don't remember if I asked but what's your prediction for Joshua vs Klitschko?

Champion97's picture

Hope you do get to go.

I have, but on very few occasions in six years pf following boxing, it is somewhat bizzare in my eyes. Well sometimes guys are always prepared to be substitutes. No but I think when Povetkin has failed a test, has lost his opponent, and is in disgrace he's in no position to be fussy about challanges, and he could have fought a lot worse than Johann Duaphas, especially if he was in shape, nobody ever expected it to be a good fight, it did seem out of nowhere, and you said it, he hadn't trained for Povetkin's style. I know, like the situation with Lucas Browne, there are questions.

It's an interesting one, it's not an outright 50/50 fight, there are tlw very different ways of looking at it, on the one hand, Joshua is still green at this level, he's had no fights this year which have taught him anything, maybe Dillian Whyte exploited some flaws which are probably still there, and it seems like a massive leap to go from less than stellar opposition to Wladimir Klitschko, a young 40 year old who has had a conservative, negative, sensible career, of course, there is a very different way of looking at it, Joshua being a decade and a half younger, being in his prime, being likely to have the upper hand in terms of physical attributes, being much more active, Klitschko has been completely inactive thru 2016, Joshua, has had three fights, all be it not educational ones, but three fights nonetheless, I mean, Froch and Haye said it, 40 years of age, and no fight for a year and a half, doming straight off a defeat, that is terrible preparation for a world title fight. One would think Klitschko is the better technician, and I think he is, but Joshua has a very good technical fighter as well, I know he started late, but of quailty experienceand efficient learning, he had a very good amateur career, I think his are developing, and he is getting increasingly better as a technically skilled boxer, I believe that jab is already a good weapon for him, and it's improving. I can't wait for Joshua vs Klitschko, it's nkt an eays one to predict, because ot depends on so many things which are unpredictable, but I'm going with Joshua, I just think Joshua will have a little bit too much for Klitschko, I think it's his time, and I just think he will be too strong, too fast, maybe just a little bit too fit, his physical attributes are extremely impressive, and I think he can use them well enough to take over down the stretch, and beat a former super champion, if he can, and of he does, let's be honest, it's not going to have the same element of glory or mean quite as much as Fury's win over Klitschko did, but it would still be a great achievement. What do you think?

When I saw that, I was really shocked. I never seen anything like that in boxing. At this part of Povetkins career, he shouldn't complain about anything. Like the fights or the money he gets for the fights. Duhaupas was at a huge disadvantage from the start. Hopefully he got paid a lot of money to take the fight.

It's too early for me to make a prediction. It's a good fight for the both of them. For Anthony Joshua if he wins this, he can say that he beat a legendary fighter in Klitschko and will be the best win on his resume. For Klitschko if he beats Joshua it shows that he still got it and beat a young champion. There isn't everything positive to come from this as well. The preparation of the 2 weren't great. Joshua had 3 subpar fights that he won every round of and really didn't get tested, and Klitschko had no fights in 2016. Some people can say when Joshua wins that he fought Klitschko at the right time and was expected. If Klitschko wins they can say that Joshua was a hype job. It will be interesting to see how this fight goes.

Champion97's picture

Well that just shows your gaining experience as a boxing enthusiast. He should have been paid a decent amount, but I don't think warrior like Duaphas are in this for the money, and these guys who just love money well, this desire isn't powerful enough to do something like motivate them into fighting a highly ranked fighter like Povetkin, after finding out he is unclean, you see why I always said Duaphas was the perfect opponent for Anthony Joshua now?, that fight should have happened in June, instead of Breazeale, before what I believe should have been Johhua vs Price earlier in the month, Joshua vs Molina was the most one sided, most disappointing fight on that bill!, anyway, I won't start speaking negatively of Anthony Joshua's level of competition again, because we're both fans, and I'm very glad he's fighting he's fighting Klitschko. I couln't agree more about Povetkin's 'rights', he should be grateful he's not locked up lkke the criminal I feel he is, I'm watching Usyk vs Mchunu, with John Rawling and Barry Jones doing the British commentry, Barry Jones is the best analyst in the country in my opinion, and I have learned a lot from listening to him speak, he's also a great role model for upcoming fighters, he's a former world champion as well, anyway he was just saying a minute ago, how the fact that Povetkin should be facing a stronger punishment, isn't up for discussion, and how there is the question, was he cheating from day one?, and kf so, how terrible that is, because in some cases, it can be fatal for the opponent, and that, simply, cannot be allowed, of it were up to me, what do you think Povetkin's punishment would be?

Well yes, that's good that you want to take time recap what you know, learn what you don't, and factor everything in, my final prediction may well be a little bit different to my current prediction, I'm not sure just yet. Absolutely!, it is more than worthwhile for both of them. I strongly advise you to ignore that rubbish as best you can, because you appreciate this great sport, why let those idiots out there get you down?, I will always try and destroy that negativity from those potatoes, because there are what's ruining the sport, they should either learn from me and those I learned from, or do what ******** (not mentioning his name) did, and leave boxing, and foloow another sport, and hey for them that's fine, because in the end, they do the most grown up thing they have ever done, and admit they are just not mature enough to understand and appreciate a sport like boxing, obviously more will say the sport isn't good enough for them not the other way around, but that doesn't matter, as long as they are eliminated from the fanbase of the sport, that is what really matters, I mean, they are like an illness to the sport, but they don't usually last too long, I mean, just sitting behind a screen all day, bashing a great sport, and refusing to learn about it, pretty pathetic if you ask me, and in all honesty, quite depressing. On a more positive note, I just had a great thought for a fight, Olexandre Usyk vs Murat Gassiev!

I don't think he cares about the money a lot, but he should be getting a good paycheck for stepping up and fighting an unclean fighter. That takes a lot of courage. Some fighters are overly concerned with money because boxing is dangerous and they want to be compensated fairly. For Duhupas, I thought he would be a good opponent for Joshua, but not now. Even though he fought an unclean fighter, he still suffered a brutal knockout and that takes a lot to come back from now. I say in 2017 he takes low level fights then maybe get a good fight in 2018. Or retire, whatever he wants. I think that Joshua should fight Price after Klitchsko whether he wins or loses. I got a chance to watch the Usyk fight, and I was impressed with his performance. I think he's the best cruiserweight in the world right now. His movement is crazy for someone his weight, reminds me a lot of Lomachenkos movement. For Povetkin, he deserves a harsh punishment for his actions. I say a 2-3 year ban, or even removed from the sport.

There's a lot of research that goes into my picks and I like to do my research before I make a prediction. I try my best to ignore the idiots in boxing. All it does is rile me up and nothing good comes out of listening to them. I hope that people who are a nuisance to the sport find a different sport or just learn the sport. Also I just found Broner vs Maidana so I will be watching that. Then Hopkins vs Shuemonov.

Also, what did you think of Bernard Hopkins career?

Champion97's picture

Yes, as a matter of principal more than anything else in my opinion. Well that just depends on the mentality and personality of the fighters, I believe all have the potential levelmof courage to fight an unclewn fighter, some just choose not to take the risk. I don't think it will have taken too much out of him, he didn't really have anything to lose, he wasn't undefeated, it was Povetkin who was under real pressure to perform, I think as long as he is ok physically, he should be fine, but I think Joshua vs Duaphas isn't yhe fihht it would have been in June, because time has moved on, and Joshua is looking at bigger fights nom. Yes, absolutely, something else he has in common with Lomackenko is the fact that he had a great amateur career, and fought for a world title very early in his career. I say Povetkin is fined 100,000, and has to give this money to rehabs all over the world, rehabs which cure drug addicts of ny kind, unrealistic punishment?, probably. To me, why does he desreve to box ever again, mo he should be kicked right out of the sport.

It depends on age, if they are 16, 18, or maybe even 20, I say they could grow up, use their brains, and learn, if you're talking to some fat waster of a 30+ year old, just forget any hope for them, and just ignore them, because there is nothing else you do, I believe that you are right in saying that ideally they would either learn, or leave the sport, but I think in a realistic world they are more likely to do both, or neither, because let's be honest a 35 year old idiot, they've probably been doing what they do for 20 years, why stop now?, they are not going to, however, a 16 year old, they are likely to have a break from boxing, consoder who they are as a lerson, grow up, and then come back later, like Acerbitas did, I wasted so much time trying to teach him about the sport, we kept going round in circles, but he refused to learn, he did the opposite to what you did, there were a few things he refused to accept, and funnily enough, he was trying to argue against me the very false point which was the absolute opposite to the very good point we were going over, Canelo Alvarez is the best example, his argument was that Canelo is someone we should all hate 'what he did equates to a duck', urrgh!!, I wasn't having of that rubbish, but anyway, that's just an example, my point is, he kept discussions going when really I was an real enthusiast who was trying to teach somebody who doesn't want to learn (my dad is a teacher and has told me that that is always a pointless exercise) and he was just being an idiot and wasting my time, and arguing invalid points, and in the end, last week, after Boxing Knowledge did what I lacked the honesty to do, and simply told him the truth, and he did the most grown up thing I've ever seen him do, and leave the website, he deleted account, I told him he wasn't mature enough to understand and appreciate the sport of boxing, and he must have known I was right, even though you are the same age, there is a big difference between people like him and people like you, the difference is, when he isn't sure about something, he makes assumptions, and when in the end, he's been wrong for months, he can't accept it, but you ask questions, understand the answers, you're knowledge grows, and that's great, you're certainly learning about boxing at a more impressive rate than I did, will Acerbitas create a new account in a year or two?, a more sensible person either with willingness to learn or someone who has learned a lot?, I would like to think so, but my hopes aren't raised. Well you'll enjoy that fight!, I loved it! Maidana became my favourite figher after that win, and it was great that he then got the opportunity to fight Floyd Mayweather quite soon after.

I think it depends on the circumstances. If Povetkin vs Wilder or Stiverne didn't get cancelled, I think they still would've fought him. I don't think they are going crazy over making the fight for a second time and most likely won't give him the fight. Duhapas's chances of fighting Joshua are pretty much done. Anthony Joshua, I believe will be going for bigger fights in 2017. If he beats Klitschko, he might have to fight Ortiz next, and I believe that will be a tougher fight then Klitshko.

There are some people who aren't worth saving. There's this one person on social media who is incredibly racist against anyone who isn't black. She predicted that Walters would beat Lomachenko and with what happened she made excuses. She said oh their looking for a new great white hope,Lomachenko wasn't impressive at all, and that the fight was fixed and Walters got paid to quit. Wouldn't give him his just due at all. This is the same person who said GGG vs Brook was fixed because Brooks corner threw in the towel despite Brook himself saying that if he would've continued he would've went blind. Just an idiot. I'm not going to say anything about Acerbitas because I never really had to deal with him. For Boxing Knowledge, he was rude on one of my cards when me and you were talking. What made Boxing Knowledge want to just leave all of the sudden? He scored a ton of fights, and for him to leave all the sudden is odd. What card was it where he said that?

Champion97's picture

No Boxing Knowledge isn't leaving, he told Acerbitas the truth and he just couldn't handle it, I will send a linger response shortly buddy, but I just wanted to clear up that misunderstanding, BK isn't leaving, he's our best judge I think, probably the most experience, and you have to admire the mental stamina it takes to score fights at that rate, it is part of impressive judging, part of it is less stress, because of the realism in your confidence that no fretting over your score in necessary, which is built uo from valuable experience.

Champion97's picture

Yes, but that fight should have happened months ago. I have to be honest, I'm not sure if I do, I think Ortiz is made for Joshua.

I know, you told about her.

When was Boxing Knowledge rude?, I don't remmeber that, anyway, no matter, it was probably just a misunderstanding. The card when me and Boxing Knowledge dropped some home truths on that idiot, was on his joke of a scorecard for Cuellar vs Mares, he was everything dwe talk about, he would constantly disrespect the position of good analysts, quite frankly, disrespect me, and disrespect Saul Alvarez most but other great champions as well, he was an idiot, you don't have to say anything about him for the reason you mentioned, bjt really in my criticism towards him, I give you high praise, and he could have learned a lot from you, had he been more like you, he would enjoyed his time on Eye on the ring more, and would have been better for the website.

I think Ortiz would beat Joshua if they fight. Also it was on your card for a Denis Lebedev fight. Wait was it Acerbitas that left or was it Boxing Knowledge? I'm a bit confused.

Champion97's picture

Sorry, Acerbitas left, BK certainly did not.

I don't think so to be honest buddy, but I take my hat off to you for not showing that bias.

Champion97's picture

Oh yeah, well I failed to score one of those rounds legitimately, so he just called me on it.

Champion97's picture

What convinced you of Ortiz's superiority over Joshua?, I can definitely see that opinion, it is very understandable, Ortiz is a real threat to any world champions reign, he's an extremely inconvenient opponent at the very least, but I just think Joshua is the better of the two, I think if they ever do fight, Joshua will make advantages into problems for Ortiz, and make them support his superior attributes, I think the late rounds would benedit the younger, bigger, stronger, fitter, cleaner athlete, I think Joshua is the more talented, the more adaptable, and I think he would beat Luis Ortiz. This is a very interesting topic, and I'd love to hear more of your opinion.

I just feel that Ortiz has the most power in the heavyweight division, and it will be a hard night for Joshua. Ortiz's movement can pose some threats to Joshua as well. I really hope I'm wrong though. I want to see Joshua beat Ortiz, or anyone for that matter. Who knows maybe Ortiz's age will show in a couple years and Joshua can win. I think Joshua can beat most of the fighters in the heavyweight division like Wilder, Haye, Parker, etc, but I think Joshua's toughest fight will be Ortiz.

What is your favorite era of boxing?

Champion97's picture

I don't think so, I think Luis Ortiz is a little bit like Chris Eubank Jr, these guys look like monsters against a certain calibre of opponent, but when they step up, you don't know what they are going to be able to achieve, and maybe, they could be out of their depth, and this is a risk we take with fighters who look like they can do all sorts in the ring, but don't actually beat opponents who are of a high enough level, let's be honest, Dave Allen, well he wasn't in great condition, he hadn't had much notice, and Malik Scott, well look at how he was able to frustrate Ortiz, Ortiz says he is angry over Scott on behalf of the fans who didn't get their entertainment, rubbish, he's embarrassed because his low level of foot speedwas exploited, hus inability to set up opportunities in which he can use his power, and hus adaptability, he should be knocking guys like Malik Scott out. Yes, but wouod he be moving at the right time?, or would he be doing what David Haye did against Wladimmir Klitschko, amd moving when doesn't need to, when already out of range, and his taller opponent doesn't need to be within range himself, Joshua's temperament impresses me, and he has the ability to stay tactically sound when winning quiet rounds in a negative manner, if he keeps Ortiz out of range for three minutes, Ortiz doesn't land a clean shit, and Joshua lands let's say only five clean pucnhes, maybe one or two that stand out, he would keep everything in the tank, and trust that the judges see everything, and give him the round, now I know that in pretty much any boxing figt scenario, it isn't that straight forward, but I think you get the general idea of the point I'm trying to make here. I don't for a second, doubt that Ortiz would be a definite challange for Joshua, it's a hard fight, there is little to no doubt about that, but I believe that may bring the best out of Joshua, I say that because, well this is one of the reasons, I don't know about you but I think the best finish of Anthony Joshua's career so far was the knock out of Dillian Whyte, now that tells me he is adaptable, and a challenge brings out the best in him. Well I'm no psychic, and let's be honest, I'm an intermediate boxing enthusiast, and hopefully a future expert, but not that yet, so I can be wrong often, but, I know a bit, and I believe your man AJ has the beating of this dangerous Cuban contender we're talking about. I think so, time is not on his side, his drugs past won't help him, yes young men who take steroids look like machines, and yes they seem to have everything clean, hard physically working young men set out to achieve, but I'll tell you, when us clean guys are 60 odd, and embarrassing young guys with our supreme fitness, but these roid freaks, they'll be fat, weak old creatures, I have no respect for the pathetic decision young men make to take any drug like this which aren't prescribed by a doctor, lf course, in that case, the situation would be very different. I think another couple of years would help Joshua, but I think he beats him now, 2017, 18, whenever. You think Ortiz is better than Parker and Wilder?, well that's understandable, but it's an opinion I strongly disagree with, I think because Ortiz has fast hands, is big, strong, has a good amateur background, is a massive puncher, is a great combination puncher, when he is on top, boy is he, and because of this, he is at the very least a tough oppoennt for the few heavyweights who are better than him, but I'm not so sold, I think he's the kind of fighter to be, I don't like the word 'exposed', given a lesson, found out, when he steps up, because these fighters who are a notch up can capitalise on his weaknesses, what are they?, I don't think he's adaptable, I think he's one paced, when he's made to work on somebody else's terms, I don't think he will sustain his success, and I think his stamina would let him down, I think his feet are relatively slow, he doesn't move his head, his ability to cut off the ring and walk down his opponent properly doesn't impress me, I think maybe he still has too much of that amateur boxer in him, I believe Parker out boxes him, Joshua out boxes and stops him, and Wilder out slugs and knocks him right out, that's what I think, for the real reason that these fighers can do what Thompson, Jenninngs couldn't do, and exploit his issues, and you see if a fighter can't work on his weaknesses, then his strengths are featured in the bout, and he may be able to have mkre success, and win more emphatically, than a better fighter than himself would beat these common opponents, of course, of thse weaknesses aren't so, or at least he might be able to stop these flaws letting his opponent causing him problems, in which case I'm wrong, it wouldnt be the first time, and it won't be the last. So do you believe Ortiz is the best heavyweight on the planet?

Tough to say, certainly not 2005-2010, the Hagler, Hearns, Leaonard, that was great era, I think very early in the century, with Barrera, Morales, another great era, I love this era, I think because there's more luxary in the world, spoiled brats are coming in bigger numbers, and the general public are less grateful, but there is nothing wrong with our era, I love it, boxing has changed so much for better over the last 10 years, this year we got Ward vs Kovalev, and Lomackenko vs Walters, next year we're getting Jack vs Degale, and Thurman vs Garcia, anyone who says the sport doesn't deliver, isn't worth listening to.

Back to Luis Ortiz, what a stupid, ridiculous alteration it was to change his opponent from Carlos Takam to Malik Scott, I mean what on earth?, Ortiz vs Takam, now there's a fight and a half, that wouldn't have been an easy fight for Ortiz, Takam wouldn't have ran?, Takam would have taken the fight to Ortiz, he would have tested Ortiz in many ways, Takam is very experienced, he is a massive puncher, is extremely durable, has phenomenal stamina, he's strong in the late rounds, just look at his performance against Joseph Parker, we have no real idea, and I mean in a concrete way, of knowing which one of our opinions in Ortiz is closer to accuracy, we learned a little bit (more than I thought we would) from the Scott fight, but not a lot, nowhere near as much as we would learned from Ortiz vs Takam.

I see where you're coming from but disagree to an extent. I agree that Chris Eubank is made to look good against a certain opponent, but is unknown when it comes to a big fight. I disagree on Luis Ortiz. Yeah, he's made to look good against low level competition, but I feel he can still perform well against better opponents. His fight with Bryant Jennings proved that. I know Jennings isn't the best heavyweight, but he's solid and Ortiz knocked him out. I thought that his performance against Allen wasn't bad, it was definitely better than what he did against Scott. I think the Scott fight isn't indicative of anything of what he will do against top level fighters. When Scott fought Ortiz, he didn't look like he was interested in engaging with Ortiz. Scott was only concerned with going the distance with Ortiz and surviving. When Ortiz fights someone like Wilder or Joshua, they won't be looking to survive and they will stand there with Ortiz and fight him. When they stand there and fight with Ortiz, they will be hit more and more likely to be stopped opposed to being in survival mode. I'm not saying that Ortiz will stop the fighters I mentioned, but I think it would be more likely since they wouldn't be in survival mode the whole fight. If Joshua can keep Ortiz out of range, he can do well and maybe beat Ortiz, but my big question is if he can do it. Joshua is a very patient when he fights, so that can be an advantage for him and he could be able to figure Ortiz out. Another concern I have with Joshua against Ortiz is if he can take Ortiz's power and how he will respond when he's hurt? He can stand a chance if he can stand up to his power. That's why I'm picking Ortiz for right now. Maybe I have to see Ortiz in there with another big fighter to see who I would pick. I never really seen Ortiz Hurt or hit that much so I'm not 100 percent sure on how he would respond to getting hit by guys like Joshua or Wilder. For all we know, he might not have a great chin when going up against the best. I still stand by Ortiz beating them, but I can certainly be way off. Ortiz is getting old and these young guys could have the beating of Luis Ortiz. I think from what I see right now that Ortiz is the best heavyweight on the planet right now. I can be wrong for sure. For Joshua, I rank him in my top 5 heavyweights. I think he beats Wilder, Haye and Parker for sure.

My favorite era is either the 90s or early 2000s. I like the guys like Roy Jones Jr, Felix Trinidad, Lennox Lewis, Barrera and Morales. I like this era of boxing as well. I feel like this era of boxing is underappreciated. Some of the fans say boxing is dead when one fight they don't like happens. I understand this year had some bad mismatches, but it also had some very good fights as well. Some known fights, and some good fights you have to look for. Also, if anyone says boxing is dead, they are wrong, look how many good fights are already set for 2017. Fans should appreciate the good moments in boxing instead of dwelling on irrelevant things.

I remember Ortiz was going to fight Takam. Disappointing it didn't happen.

Champion97's picture

Sorry about all the typos, and I think you probably worked out, 'clean shit' was a mistake.

Well to start this off, I'm 99% sure you know this already, but I just want to state, that from my perspective, it makes it more interesting if we disagree on subjective points, well anything future related is 100% subjective, but it is good you have built up your own opinion based on your knowledge and observance rather than just nod and go along with what I say, great stuff. Yes, and in boxing, careers are short, how much longer are there going to bs unanswered questions?, we can't know or even estimate the answer to that question, but I don't think he'll ever be a world champion. Well that's simply because I believe the champions are good enough to exploit and capitalise on his weaknesses, and he won't be able to woek around this, but you don't agree, but my point is, neither of us are denying his hand speed, power, physical strength, accuracy, all round offensive skill is impressive, the difference is you believe he will still be able to use these attributes, but I believe they will he neagted, it is so interesting because what seems to be a small point makes for a big difference in opinion.

No with Bryant Jennings, I can't put a percentage on it, but I believed he proved a small part of what you believe he proved, and that's for a few reasons, it's one fight, we shiukd consider the fact that maybe there were some factors on Jennings' side, and also, Bryant Jennings is good enough to go 12 rounds with Wladimir Klitschko, maybe a win a round or two, edge out an out of shape but still skilled and awkward Mike Perez, but he doesn't beat these big names, or come close, I mean had Wilder fought all his opponents up to Kevin Price, then fought poor opponents, then did what he did against Duaphas, would we be getting carried away if we based an strong opinion that be was one of the best based on this solo performance?, I believe so. I think Ortiz proved a lot when he beat Bryant Jennings, but not as much as you think, because I think it is easy to be fooled by how empatically somebody beats a common opponent, look at Chris Eubank Jr's wins over Gary O'Sullivan and Nick Blackwell in comparison to Billy Joe Saunders's, I still believe an form Billy boxes rings around him to be honest. I'm finding this particularly difficult to explain, but I guess some of what I'm trying to say here is, Ortiz beating Bryant Jennings proves he can do what he does against low levek opponents, against very good fighters, but it doesn't convince me, it certainly doesn't prove anything in terms of being able to compete right at the top, it just shows us something closer to this.

It wasn't bad, but how much notice had Dave Allen had?, and was he on form? Was he in good shape?, in my opinion, not enough, not really, and no, I wasn't that impressed to be honest, yes it was better than his performance against Mailk Scott, but what does that say?

Well actually I believe it is, because those were problems Scott gave him, problems that came from weaknesses Ortiz has which can be disguised by his explosive power and sheer dominance at a certain level, I don't believe Scott would be able to do that to Joshua, Parker, or Wilder, I don't think it darn near confirms anything, and some fighters can woek around their own flaws well enough to achieve at any level, so you could be right, but it does tell me a lot about Ortiz as a fighter, and it tells me, Joshua wpuld have a lit to capitalise on and take advantage of, and if he does what's wise, Ortiz will struggle, and lose.

But that's not really the point, if Kevin Johnson, and a few others (trying to think of other defensive heavyweights) had wanted to go the distance with Anthony Joshua to break his KO string, they would have done it, if Ortiz can't catch Scott, that's not Scott's problem that's Ortiz's problem, Scott ran, if Ortiz is this beast, and the best in the division, why was Scott able to run?, why didn't Scott run from Wilder?, he tried to!, did you see that fight?, do you believe Scott would be able to move around and frustrate Anthony Joshua like that?, I don't.

Well it's all about the right combination isn't it, yes they shouldn't spend the whole fight aiming to survive and just that, because that doesn't win you anything, they wouldn't under commit, they wou)dn't iver commit, they would move, when necessary, but woek at the same time, Lennox Lewis said after Mayweather vs Pacquiao, 'if you can't catch it, you can't hit it'.

I think he can, for enough of the fight to win, but we can't know, one thing I do agree on, is that the question of whether or not he can control range, and keep it long, for enoigh of the fight, will play a massive part in who wins.

That's a good point, I think Joshua's chin is fine, I don't think he has a granite jaw, but I think he has a relatively tough chin, what are the reasons to think he doesn't have a good chin?, Dillian Whyte, no, he just got caught flish with a lovely left, which he did not see coming, from a sideward angle, bang on the chin, and that amateur stoppage defeat, well that was more a case of inexperience in my opinion, it was a defensive issue, but also a case of him not knowing what to do when he was hurt, I do not doubt that Ortiz can hurt Joshua, without having to land with his absolute best, when Joshua is in his modt susceptible position, but with Joshua's extremely likely supereme fitness, time being very much on his side, and his recovery rate being likely far better, one thinks, Ortiz would need far more than his potential ability to hurt Joshua purley on a power-durability basis. When two guys can hurt each other, obviously the boxer of the two, is less at risk of being in trouble, I'm not saying Joshua vs Ortiz is anything like Golovkin vs Lemiuex, but I think Ortiz is capable of hurting Joshua, just as Lemiuex is capable of hurting Golovkin.

Ortiz's chin is untested, as is his all round durability. I question Ortiz's stamina.

That's a valid opinion, mine is different, I think Wilder beats Joshua at the moment, I think he beats Parker, but there's little in it, in my opinion, Wilder, Joshua, Parker, Ruiz, Ortiz, all knock Haye spark out.

Mismatches happen, have always happened, and will always happen. Boxing needs more positivity, again, I use the same interesting example, I won't mention his name again (although a clue, he looks like Yoda), and I'm not going to mention this topic again, but I mention it now, because it is very relevant to what you say, that guy admitted to me in the end, after I schooled him, 'I know fuck nothing about boxing, I ain't even close to being in shape, all I do is sit behind a screen all day', that speaks volume. This might amuse you, you know Charlie and the chocolate factory?, the Augustus Gloops and Veruca Salts of this world can't appreciate boxing, because most of them are immature, fat, patheitc spoilt brats, the Charlie Buckets on the other hand, they are the fans who help make boxing what it really is, a truly wonderful sport.

Very much so, I wonder why, it was just the most ridiculous change, I think it was confirmed. I want to see Ruiz vs Ortiz, in my opinion, that's a 50/50 fight.

That's fine, I got past the typos.

I agree. We don't have to agree on everything and that makes it more interesting. For Ortiz, I'm going off of what I have seen. Ortiz looks pretty good as of now but my opinion might change depending on what I see. If I see something where Ortiz looks vulnerable or shows major flaws like a poor chin, or stamina issues or so on then I'll adjust my opinion. I disagree on him becoming a world champion belt, I heard he might be fighting for a vacant belt and that can be easier than fighting a regular champion. From what I've seen from Ortiz he will be able to use his attributes, but my opinion can change if I see some weaknesses in his game when he steps up.

For the Bryant Jennings fight, he proved some things in there. He proved that he can knock out a good fighter like Bryant Jennings. Also, did give him some problems in the fight. From what I remember, he gave him some problems but never hurt Ortiz. That's a big question I have for Ortiz is how his chin will hold up against Heavyweights with power. Will he be able to execute his gameplan? Maybe.

You're right about David Allen. He probably wasn't in the best shape for the fight against Ortiz. I'll still say that Ortiz looked good in the fight, but it was expected.

I see where your'e coming from now. Scott gave him issues that could happen against Joshua or anyone else. He might be struggling to knock them out and he will get frustrated and won't know how to knock these guys out and could lose. I can totally see that.

Moving on to the mismatches and the fans. People need to understand that the fights they won't happen won't happen right away and some fights need a bild up. Also sometimes mismatches are used as tune ups for bigger fights and it gives them more experience. Also, I think Acerbitas might of been trolling about him being fat and sitting in front of the computer all day.

Sorry I could'nt respond to everything at the moment, I am pretty busy tonight and tried to get in all I could.

Champion97's picture

Merry Christmas Mike!

Yes, well that is your natural insinct as a boxing fan, it is hard to know how much of that is genuine, and how much of that is Ortiz being made to look better than he really is. Well yes, we don't know how much he will prove to us when he steps up, and that's when he will be really tested, that when the best will be brought out of him. Well to be honest, some fighters only get found out for their weaknesses when they step up to the top, and I feel as if Ortiz is one of these fighters, his stamina is somewhat untested, and so is his chin, but also his ability to box under pressure, and handle not having everything his own way, will the tide turn quickly?, weill he crumble?, will he find another level?, let's hope we find out one day! I meant Eubank, but he's fighting Renold Quinlan for the IBO belt, I can't criticise him so much, because of Quinlan's win over Geale, but it's one fight, and I question the circumstances, I think Danny Jacobs would beat Eubank comfortably, and I think Golovkin has more of a challange wih Jacobs, that he would have with Eubank.

Yes well all I was saying there was that he did make a statement there, he did prove more than he had proven by beating easier opponents, he just dodn't prove as much as perhaps one might believe, for a few reasons, so the long and the short of it is that he did prove a lot, but not as much as one thinks.

Well I'm not trying to take away credit given to Ortiz, he stopped a tough, extremely durable opponent, he wasn't in the best of shape, he had had what, 2-3 weeks notice?, and Allen is young and inexperienced, but he has some talent I believe, and he's got no issues with his heart, he's a skilled inside fighter who's had great sparring this year, I don't have a problem with you giving Ortiz praise for that win, and I mean he won every round, got a great stoppage, not a bad result, far from it.

Well ue established a way in which a fighter can frustrate Luis Ortiz, now, let's say Malik Scott gets a shot at the IBF title, why should he fear Joshua (a younger, bigger man than Ortiz, with a bigger KO ratio) any less than he feared Ortiz?, would Scott do things differently against Joshua?, I doubt it, I don't think he believes he can beat Joshua, Wilder, Ortiz etc, I believe his tactcis would be the same against every one of these dangerous heavyweights, why wouldn't they be?, do you believe he would be able to move around Anthony Joshua for 12 rounds, and frustrate him, making the fight very lacklustre?, I don't, I very much doubt it. That's exactly what I mean, and yes, he would struggle yo getbthe knock out, that's the ultimate point to this, but if he's not in range of say Anthony Joshua, he's going to be able to land very rarely, and he's going to get out boxed, I think Anthony Joshua has fast feet, and Deontay Wilder, he's not a big heavweight, I mean he isn't stocky, he's got those very lean calves, where all the power comes from, and because of that physique, one thinks maybe he could adopt a more mobile style, I believe Wilder is number one without Tyson Fury, but back to the point, although big punchers and nut fighters who oftten box off the back foot (it's not a style of many heavyweights), are fast enough in foot, to maintain distance, and capitalise upon Ortiz inability to close the gap. What I'm saying here, is that it is useful throughout, when it comes to Ortiz going for the knock out, but also just when he's trying to unload on his opponent.

Well yes, one thing I want to say first, is for goodness sake, Smith vs Alvarez wasn't a mismatch, Ward vs Barrera wasn't a mismatch, Crawford vs Postol wasn't a mismatch, there is some degree of subjectivity in what the word exactly means, but I think you get my point, Eubank vs Doran was a mismatch, Rios vs Alvarado III was a mismatch, Brook vs Bizier was a mismatch. Fans dk need to be patient, and the key to that in my opinion, is savoruing occasions and appreciating the fights, that takes genuine interest on the sport, desire to be positive, and maturity. Yes, it's a risk when fighters take tune ups, it is good for them go be easy, maybe not too easy, but not something that is going to take too much out of the fighter. No, I don't think so, there is a pattern with his sort, I dragged that out of him, I don't care who's fat or doesn't get out and have a social life, the main point there was that that was common ground between 'fans' who follow the sport for a while but never understand it, I systematically destroyed his ridiculous arguement which was based on inexperience, immaturity, and stubbornness, and I made him say it in the end 'I know fuck nothing about boxing', now, it's one thing for us to agree about why there needs to be nore positivity in the sport, and promoting being nice to everyone all round, but if some idiot is going to try to compete with my knowledge and experience, and argue that world champions don't deserve respect, his attitude towards Canelo Alvarez, was disgusting, this is the best example, I've always loved a good debate, I take after my dad, but if someone is going to try and disrespect my knowledge, and disrespect the people who know more than me, and try and argue in favour of what we have established is the main problem in the sport of boxing, I'm not having that!, and I will put him in his place. I do have a personal grudge against that dick, but not because of anything to do with boxing, he thought he'd argue against me that the words 'spaz' and 'retard' are okay to be used, there's no question that that is unacceptable, I believe it is more clear cut in America that that is a crime, is that right?

No worries pal, that's a decent sized reply.

Even though it's late merry Christmas to you. I couldn't respond yesterday because I was out the house all day.

That is true. It is for the most part unknown of what Ortiz is capable of doing in these big fights. When it comes to the big fights, he might not perform as well for a different amount of reasons. He might fold when it comes to big names and can't perform under the bright lights. He could get exposed by these big names, or he might do well and win these big fights. Who knows with Ortiz. I just go off what I see. I agree, Jacobs will be a tougher challenge than Eubank for Golovkin. I want to rewatch Eubank vs Saunders again, I had it a draw the first time. Do you think Eubank jr can beat Quinlan?

I feel he did make a statement to beating Ortiz.

In the Scott fight, we were able to find out how to frustrate Ortiz. If Joshua fights Ortiz, he won't fight like Scott though. Joshua will engage more with Ortiz and not try to survive 12 rounds. I do agree that Joshua will do better against Scott than Ortiz will. I think that Joshua will be more patient to get it and not hope for one big shot like Ortiz did. Joshua will know what to do to get the knockout since we seen in his fight with Ortiz on what not to do. If Joshua doesn't take his foot of the gas, he will get the ko. I think Wilder vs Joshua will be interesting. Wilder makes some mistakes when he throws punches and I think Joshua will capitalize big time. Whats your opinion on Wilder by the way? He's fighting again in Febuary.

I agree on what was or wasn't a mismatch. The thing people need to realize is that the best fights can't happen all the time and that mismatches happen. Fans need to get over that. For tune ups, you do need someone will challenge you but not to easy. Like for example for Kovalev, he fought Chilemba. Chilemba is not the best opponent for Kovalev but he's someone who's tough and hard to look good against. I'm glad you called him out and spoke out against something you didn't agree with. He did seem like he would try to piss you off on purpose and stuff like that. He was very rude to you from what I saw. I can't say he was rude to me because he only commented on one of my cards. I think I remember him calling Canelo a pussy and stuff like that and that's not cool. You know I'm a big Canelo fan and does some things I don't like, but I will never say he's a pussy because he didn't fight Golovkin right away. What else did he say about Alvarez? I remember he hated on Pacquiao big time and wouldn't give him much credit for anything. Also do you know Acerbitas personally or seen him in person? Also saying stuff like retard or spaz isn't a crime but it's frowned upon in America.

Also, how do you think that Stevenson vs Ward or Beterbiev would go?

Champion97's picture

Thanks man, no worries, it's good to get out and live life.

Yes, and one could ask, why are all questions still remaining unanswered?, because he's 37, and it is a fair way into his career now, and I think a lot of that is to do with fighters not wanting opponents with a drug related past. If you judge him based on what you've seen from him so far, then your opinion on him will be very positive, Malik Scott frustrating him is the only thing about hik which makes you think he isn't this machine who beats everyone. You can if you want, I think a draw is fair. Oh yes absolutely, fairly easily.

Do you mean Jennings?, yes he did, on whatever level, that was a great result.

No obviously not, but in order to frustrate Ortiz, movement just needs to be part of his game plan, I'm not saying he should repliacte the performance of Mailk Scott, he should just be sure to take advantage of Ortiz's weaknesses and flaws. I think Joshua wouls rather give it his all but get kncoked out, than settle for a points defeat, and hang on for 12 rounds. Joshua vs Scott should not and hopefully will never happen, I just used that fight as a hypothetical scenario to prove my point. Yes absolutely, and I don't believe there is any bias there I've seen him over commit many times. I think he's the best heavyweight on the planet, I think he's a special fighter, Wilder vs Joshua would be fantatsic, it's gold vs silver in most opinions, most believe they are the top two, two undefeated world champions with 95+ or 100% KO ratios, the general idea is that they are the two top guys in the division, I think maybe Anthony Joshua woukd be a slight favourite, if he does a good job against Wladimir Klitschko, but I think Wilder is number one. I heard he was fighting that Polish bloke who got stopped in three by Alexander Povetkin, but is undefeated outside of this fight.

Well at first, I was speaking to hik the way I spoke to you, for example, when you asked me queetions about scoring, I gave you the answer, and you gathered that knowledge, which is great, now the problem with Acerbitas, is his immaturity, and unnecessary stubbornness made his reaction to what was advice from somebody who knew far more than he did about boxing what it was, I would tell him that something was right, or wrong, I would tell him just when and how a 10-8 round becomes valid (because he scored round 5 of Whyte vs Chisora 10-8! And that's just an example), I gave him about 20 specific examples of reliable experts who ge should follow to learn from, I explained that all these guys said Mayweather beat Maidana decisively, I watched it back and understood why and how, and fatboy inisisted, analysts can be wrong, I could count on my fingers, in six years, the number of occasions when one in 100 has been wrong, and he thought he could convince me they were all wrong in that occasion, I'm annoyed with myself that I let thise discussions go on for so long, because this this the Internet, all we have is the ability to type, it became back and fourth arguing when really it should have been just a short arguemnt which was one guy who was right telling an idiot he was being just that, and an idiot making his choice to be stupid, the bottom line is, he was trying to justify what I had told him was wrong, and kept responding with 'I disagree', facts and opinions is a topic which we learn about in secondary school, or high school to you. When did you see him be rude to me?, it happened on a few occasions. Sorry, can I just pause this a second, and continue this paragraph acfter I've shown you this link,

I have to say, this made me feel a little bit sorry for him, but come on, he don't know **** bout boxin!

He said, 'the fight needs to happen now because....', apparently Canelo is a villain for saying 'Mexicans don't fuck around', after he had called Tales From The Crypt a 'pactard', I seeth at that disgusting word. He blasted Cotto vs Kirkland, because Cotto challenged Canelo and Canelo 'violently knocked out Kirkland', and I tried to explin to him, that in a real world by ny standards, not every fight is a 50/50 fight, and a great, sensible, possibly telling match up does not have to be a 50/50 fight, moron!, and you see, him saying Canelo is 'a pussy', 'lacks class', etc, he evem said he hated him once which just about sums up how patheitc he was, because hating someone who is not a criminal, who you don't know, is below sad in my book. Look at this discussion, he is very rude to Tales (a very good scorer), and just randomly picks on him about his scorecard, even though he had Klitschko vs Povetkin 114-110, Pacquiao vs Barrera a draw, Porter beating Thurman 116-112.

You're someone who Acerbitas should look up to, because unless I'm mistaken, before you got your Eye on the ring account, you knew very little about boxing, and now, we both make good points on equal terms when we have discussions, Acerbitas just kept being stupid, and trying to argue against facts, he just refused to give in and let the truth near him, I mean, his mindset and attitude were all wrong, do me or you say we 'hate' any boxer?, do we call them names?, do we call any of them 'duckers'?, these are indicators of someone who isn't mature enough to understand and appreciate boxing, and the fans who do understand and appreciate the sport are the fans who can help boxing, fans like you buddy!, I mean in the end I told him that, he should be following a sport like WWE Raw, where it is all about screaming swearing, and watching guys killing each other with no thought or method, just furniture, and dirty fighting, all fake rubbish, but well suited to a certain type of person.

Say said many, many things about Alvarez, look at our arguemnt on the, actually, I'll show you,

Just scroll down the comments and you will find it, it isn't everything he ever said about Canelo, but it's some of it. He held pathetic, childish, bitter grudges against Lee Haskins, and Amir Khan too, he had Hall beating Haksins 117-111, nd he gave Haskins's second best round of the fight to Stuey!.

Yes, I said before about Pacquiao vs Barrera being a draw, and he had Bradley on losing 114-113 to Pacquiao in the third fight, he made excuses about the two knockdowns. He held a pathetic grudge against Manny Pacquiao, I kind of pittied him to be honest.

No I don't, I know he's a Brit though, and he's our age. He's lucky I haven't met him in person, because after that disgusting hate crime related comment, I wouldn't have minded lamping him one, you never know who you talk to on the Internet, but if he's the fat stinkin coach potato I think he is, I'd smash him. Oh no I know it isn't an official crime anywhere, but I believe it is taken more seriously in America than Great Britain, I think anyone over 18 who uses it should get a prison sentence. In the end, I went off in Acerbitas, because I mean, you understood the basics when you were new to this site and I gave you those scoring tips, after I gave him far more advice, and explained far more, far manhy more times, Acerbitas still did not understand, he didn't bother to ever take anything in, and he wasted my time. I believe Acefbitas said this on his scorecard, for Cuellar vs Mares (he only had Mares 114-113, he gave Cuellar rounds 1-4, and said the only decisive rounds of the fight were rounds 10 and 11, one for each, idiot), "I just watched Kovalev vs Ward, in slow mo, I counted the pucnhes, Ward landed more punches, and because landing more punches is the most important part, I know I'm right and Ward won, I know for a FACT that my punch count was 100% accurate, and Ward landed more punches, therefore, eveyone who says Kovalev won, is incorrect". It was not long after this, that me and Boxing Knowledge cleaned him off this website, he's probably sitting in front of some low budget horror movie now, downing the energy drinks, and scoffing junk, or writing a burn book about Alvarez and Pacquiao, haha, whenever I messaged him, he always replied within minutes, so he must have been behind that screen 24/7, our replies take time, at least a few hours, maybe even days, because we have lives.

Very interesting questions, it's tough to say, with Stevenson vs Beterbiev, there is a gulf in professional experience, and the difference in levels in which they have competed at is extreme, in favour of Stevenson, but, Beterbiev had a way, way better amateur career than Stevenson, I believe Stevenson had about 40 fights, Beterbiev lost 17:13 to Usyk, but beat Kovalev twice, and age, time on Beterviev's side, Beterbiev has done everything perfectly in his career so far, and it is a great fight, but I think Stevsnson on experience. I think Stevenson would more than challenge Andre Ward, but I think Ward would take over down the stretch and achieve a decisive and fairly comfortable victory.

Yeah man, hope you had a good Christmas.

Yeah, a lot of people don't want to fight him because of his drug past. I heard Wilder in an interview say that he wouldn't fight Ortiz because he is a cheater. I don't blame him for that and think he deserves any criticism for not wanting to fight him. I'll say that after the Scott fight I was worried about him against future opponents.

Ok I see where your'e coming from. You mean that there's a way of frustrating and possible beating Ortiz. Scott laid the blueprint to an extent. He showed that movement is a way to frustrate Ortiz but not beat him. If someone like Joshua or Wilder shows movement and can land punches against Ortiz, they should be able to beat him. I'm not positive if they can do that. If Oritz were to fight Joshua or Wilder I would root against Ortiz in those fights. I'm a fan but he's not anywhere close to my favorite fighters. I never heard of the guy that Wilder fought. I did look at his boxrec and his only loss is to povetkin.

I would look at some of the things he said and it was ridiculous. Like I have no idea how he scored it 10-8 for either Chisora or Whyte despite no point deduction or knockdown. It seemed like he made his own rules when it came to scoring and would argue if you called him out. I honestly can't think of a way that Bradley would've won the fight if he never got knocked down twice. I think I gave him 4 rounds in the 3rd fight and a lot of people I talked to gave him even less. I think he scored more with emotion rather than logic. It's a shame that people do that. He was rude to you on a lot of occasions. Like telling you to fuck off and stuff like that.

I read the arguements, and wow he can say some crazy stuff.

I don't get how he can hate fighters he doesn't know personally. I think it was hypocritical that he called out Pacquiao for what he might or might not of done outside of the ring when he defends Mayweather who has actually served jail time for his actions. I didn't see the Barrera Pacquiao rematch but from what I heard and the cards on this site, it was a landside. Looks like he just hates Pacquiao and will not give him credit for anything. It seems like to me that what he says is the law of the land and not up for debate at all. Like for Ward Kovalev, he could of missed a ton of punches and not counted for either fighter and giving a figher punches he didn't land. There's no way it can be 100% accurate. That was a fight that could've went either way. I wish I could see the card where you and Boxing Knowledge tear him a new one.

Just out of curiosity, has he ever said anything about me? If so, don't hold back.

I wouldn't worry about the guy anymore. He's off the site for now. Do you think he'll ever return to the site?

I agree about the gulf in pro experience. It would be a good quebec showdown since their both from there. I think Stevenson will give Ward problems in the beginning but Ward will win down the stretch. Also do you agree with me that Usyk is the best Cruiserweight in the world right now?

Champion97's picture

I did thanks, I filled a pillow case full presents for my dog, I bought him two soft, squeaky toys, a duck that has tennis balls for joints (so it bounces when you throw it), a massive bone, a plastic stocking full of coloured chews, a packet of chocolate drops for dogs, a packet of Turkey sticks, a packet of gravy bones, and a packet if sizzlers, I spent £35, but I told Charley the presents were from Santa, the way his tail wagged when he saw his presents, it may have been the highlight of my Christmas. Hope you had a good Christmas too!

That's it, I think it's something trainers resent more than fighters, if you were a trainer, your job was to keep your fighter fit and healthy, would you want him anywhere near an unclean opponent?, Ortiz calling all the other heavyweights 'pussys' is his frustration with himself talking, because he knows it's all his fault, I mean it's clear to me that of everyone was avoiding him because he seemed too much of a risk, after the Scott fight, he would not be short of fight offers, but he's still very avoided, that tells me that the reason has always been and still very much is because of his past with illegal substances.

Bang on! Well he certainly set part oftge blueprint, fast, accrurate shots, power, amateur experience, angles, great combination puncher, all greta attributes, but if the fighger i question is kept out of range, how is he going to make use lf any of these weapons? Yes, unless Ortiz can really surprise us with something else and find another gear, maybe find a away to close the gap and take over in the late rounds, I don't believe so, but it wouldn't shock me. I'm 100% with you on that, for what it is worth, I would oot for Joshua and Wilder against Ortiz.

Acerbitas scored the last round of Trout vs Alvarez 10-8 for Trout, he scored round 6 of Garcia vs Judah 10-8 for Garcia, he also scored rounds 3-5 of Berto vs Ortiz I 10-8, and Liam Smith vs John Thompson round 4 10-8. That's it, he did exactly that, I would explain to him, when and how a 10-8 round becomes valid, I would explain just how rare they are (because how many have you seen in your time following boxing?, I've seen about 30 I'd say), but he would still try to explain his scoring as if he could somehow convince me his scoring was legitimate, he finished one of his paragraphs saying "I hope you understand my logic for my scoring", and when it suited him, "boxing is subjective", when I, as somebody who hadbeen wheere he was 2-3 years avo but had learned a lot since, had told him categorically, that he was wrong, this was why he didn't learn, if anything his scoring got worse over time. Well that's it, he hated Pacquiao, he wasn't able to let go of his ridiculous grudge, and he let this get in the way of his scoring, this is what I meant about the arguemnt between him and Tales From The Crypt, he had the nerve to call Tales a 'pactard', which is extremely offensive, and swear and get aggressive, insisting he doesn't take his anger towards Pacquiao out on his scorecrads, when he scored Pacquiao vs Bradley III the way he did, and scored Pacquiao vs Barrera a draw, the best you could give Barrera would have been 118-109, and the best you could have possibly given Bradley would have been a three point defeat, ans some would argue four, but I definitely think 115-111 is a perfectly valid score, even though 117-109 is too, I had that fight 117-110. Bang on! Oh yeah I know, I just didn't know you'd seen that verbal abuse, he called me 'a cocksucker', 'a prick', and mocked my faith, I don't care about the aggressive insults, and the plain swearing, but mocking my faith, and the whole 'pactard' business, that got to me, and made it quite personal.

Did you see his scorecard for Ali vs Frazier II? His argument on the main fight page for Trout vs Alvarez was awful as well, he does say some ridiculous things, did you see the argument we had on the Mayweather vs Pacquiao main fight page?

Oh I understand how, I just think it's pathetic, it's jealousy, bitterness, and immaturity. It's strange as well as hypocritical, when he's called on his ridiculous scorecards, boxing is subjective, and when somebody scores a fight in a way he strongly disagrees with, it's wrong, so he uses 'boxing is subjective' when it suits him. That's the control freak in him, and because of his grudge against Pacquiao, he refuses to give him any credit, it's as simple as that. I explained that to him, him doing that, and bringing himself to the heartfelt conclusion that he was 100% accurate shows he had too much free time, and needed a job, I mean that's a bit weird. The biggest problem there, was that he insinuated that the way he believed boxing worked, was there is no subjectivity, the figher who lands more punches, wins the fight, and that's it, and that is assuming he was right as he insisted he 100% was. Yeah sorry, it's just that he deleted the scorecard, Boxing Knowledge was brutally honest, he didn't waste his time like I did, he just tried to give him some advice, that disn't work, so he dropped some home truths on him.

Hmm, not at the top of my head, but it does seem familiar, and I think he strongly insulted people who had certain scorecards, and they were scorecards you submitted, so in a sense yes, but I don't remember a specific occasion in which he mentioned your name.

Yeah good thing too, I have remaining anger towards him, for two reasons, which are unrelated to boxing. Well even though he doesn't have an account anymore, he can still access the site, he can still potentially see this conversation, but in terms of him having a new account, I would think it unlikely, when one thinks of all the cards he deleted, he probably erased 70% of his scorecards, all that effort erased, I mean I told him to grow up, learn some respect for a great sport and those who understand it, and maybe come back in a year or two, it is possible, but I think it is likely Eye on the ring will ever see him again, and if is even less likely he will be any different if he does come back, he was a problem which this site doesn't have anymore, that was all he was, a problem, he was exactly what we have established is bad for boxing, so let's be honest, unless he really changes his ways, deeply apologises to me for the disgusting comments, then I hope we never see him on this website again.

I do!, I think Gassiev vs Usyk would be great!

Sounds like you had a good christmas.

Ortiz has no one to blame but himself for no one wanting to fight him. He made the choice to cheat and has to live with it. I know that he has strict testing year round, but sometimes fighters find ways to cheat the system. Trainers and the fighters themselves might question if Ortiz is clean.

If you can use movement and actually try to fight Ortiz you can beat him. Looking to survive will not beat him and that is something Joshua will not do. He will try to fight him and not look to survive. If he can use movement and frustrate Ortiz then I will give him a good chance of beating him. I just don't know if he can do it.

I scored Trout vs Canelo a long time ago and only remember Trout going down in that fight. Never saw Ortiz and Berto but if you say he was wrong for a 10-8 round I'll take your word for it. He might justify his scoring but it's not the right way that he's doing it. There's a set way of scoring fights and you can't make up your own rules. His hatred for Pacquiao got in the way of judging a fair fight for him. I have no idea how he thinks Pacquiao won the fight. Even without the knockdowns. I think that the judges were right with the 116-110 scores for Pacquiao. I thought Bradley did well in some rounds but definitely not enough to win the fight. He's like those Mayweather haters who score every fight against him that he clearly won. Bias for a certain fighter shouldn't be put into scoring. That's not cool that people mock others faiths and him doing it to you. Let people believe in whatever religion they want and go on.

I saw most of his comments. I don't want to talk about him too much.

I would love to see Usyk vs Gassiev. Great fight.

Champion97's picture

Yeah, best christmas ever.

I suppose us talking about the boxing side of this is just stating the obvious, that he is a fool, but the point here, which I'm not having, is that one shouldn't use those horrible words we talked about, or make a joke out of somebody's beliefs, and those who do, deserve to be punished.

I don't either, there is just too much to talk about, let's talk about something a bit less depressing.

I think Usyk is number one at 200, and get this, I heard he's walking around at 220, he's only 29, so he has a good 5 years left in his prime, imagine if he was to compete in the heavyweight division! In my opinion, because Gassiev is coming off a good win over Denis Lebedev (in a fight I am yet to see), and Usyk is believed by many to be the best cruiserweight in the world, Usyk vs Gassiev is the best fight at cruiserweight. I think when we all thought Lebededv and Glowacki were the best, the division was exciting enough, but now they've been outshined by Gassiev and Usyk, it is even better!

What's your take on Rigondeaux vs Flores?, I like Rigondeaux as a fighter, but I remember we had that discussion in the past about what maybe he could so to evolve his style, and this isn't anything to dl with him in the ring, but he's so nasty, I want to see him lose, I think Lomachenko wouod beat him, I know they are two divisions apart, but I think it's a more realistic idea that Pacquiao vs Lomackenko.

Agreed. Usyk is by far the best cruiserweight right now. He might have more than 5 good years left since he hasn't taken much damage so far. I think he has expressed interest in going up to heavyweight at some point. Usyk vs Gassiev would be the best fight to be made at crusierweight at the moment. I used to think Glowacki was the best crusierweight then after Usyk beat him and seeing his skill set he is number one. I also ranked Lebedev high so I think Gassiev is number 2. Usyk, Gassiev, Glowacki, and Lebedev are my top 4 in that division.

I like the fight. I'm really suprised that Rigo is fighting on a HBO pay per view bout because he is not fan friendly and people hated his fight on the Canelo vs Cotto undercard. There have been talks of Lomachenko fighting multiple big names including Rigo, Pacquiao and Crawford. I agree that Rigo is probably the most realistic. What do you think of people not ranking him in pound for pound lists because he has less than 10 fights?

Champion97's picture

Oh absolutely, I don't doubt he has at least another decade of good years!, I just mean he has most likely 5-ish years left in his absolute prime. I think so, but obviously Lebedev, Bellew are still good options. I was and still am the same. Yes!, and I think Bellew is in the top five too.

I'm all for fighters winning the way they are suppsoed to win, and boxing in the way they are supposed to box, but I don't like Rigondeaux carrying his opponents, ans I think that is something he is guilty of, and at that point, I do concur that that is a sleeping tablet of a fight, I like Rigondeaux as a boxer, I can't help but admire his skills, but man, as human being I have to say, he's so nasty, that whole broken jaw business after the Dickens fight, and he certainly doesn't care about his fans, I wonder how he would do if he was made to dig deep, I wonder how adpatable he is, I think Lomackenko would beat him, I question the stamina and durability of Rigondeaux. Ridiculous, because Lomackenko achieves this, that's obviously people taking their frustration out on him, because they don't like to watch him fight, and anyway, Rigondeaux is 17-0. People don't like it, Rigondeaux doesn't excite the average boxing fan, but everybody has to give him credit, he only does his job, ans he does it extremely well, he's not in the strongest of divisions, but he is dominant at the moment, I do think it would be very interesting if he was to move up to featherweight, and then he could fight Santa Cruz, Frampton, Quigg, Selby, even Lomackenko, if he would be prepared to come back down to 126, but I don't think Rigondeaux wants these fights, I think he either doesn't want them, or would happily agree to them but doesn't have a burining desire to chase these champions, I could be wrong, we might never find out. Rigondeaux is 37, that's not young, especially for a super bantamweight, he is only 17-0, but ne has had a long amateur career, he's won several gold medals.

Agreed. I did forget to mention Bellew, I would put him in the fifth spot. Do you think Usyk will move up to Heavyweight at some point? Also I hear he might be on the Golovkin vs Jacobs undercard, who do you think is a realistic fight for him on the undercard?

I don't either. It's one thing if you don't have a lot of power and have to box to a decision, but I think he has the power to stop some of these opponents. If you can stop your opponent, go for it. I never seen him really challenged before except the knockdowns but I want to see him in there with a fighter who will give him tough rounds, and Loma will do that for sure. I would root for Lomachenko if he fights Rigo. I kind of want to see him lose to. I think Rigo will be better off at featherweight, he can get the bigger names that he wants. He complains about people not fighting him so he should move up to a better division.

Champion97's picture

I think he will if he feels he is comfortable enough at the weight to do himself justice, and if he feels there are worthwhile fights at heavyweight. I think Ilunga Makabu would be a great opponent, Steve Cunningham maybe, Ola Afolabi, Dymtro Kucher, these are just a few, I think Makabu would be the best next opponent for Usyk, and what a great addition he would be to Golovkin vs Jacobs.

Oh definitely, that's it, it's the same reason we all used to criticise Chris Eubank Jr over here, carrying opponents is beneficial to nobody. But you see, what does that say?, if the only times he's been challenged, he's been knocked down, then he's going to struggle when he is realy challenged, he is not ised to having to work hard in the ring, and I wonder how he will fare when he has no choice. Yes, as long as he is comfortable at featherweight, bjt I think he should be, I wouod love to see Rigondeaux vs Quigg.

I think if he does it will be in 2-3 years. He seems like he's pretty comfortable at cruiserweight. I think Makabu is the most realistic option for Usyk on the Golovkin Jacobs undercard. Maybe later in the year he fights Gassiev.

Yeah, sometime he does look good against certain opponents. He did dominate vs Donaire minus the knockdown. I'm pretty sure this wasn't the first time he was knocked down. He was knocked twice in a fight and so on. Rigo can get lazy and that will be a problem against Lomachenko. I would like to see Rigo fight Frampton instead of Quigg but Quigg is still a good option.

Champion97's picture

Maybe, it isn't something which is easy to predict, we'll see. Well I think it depends on Makabu, after that heavy defeat to Tony Bellew, where is he at?, if he is eager, then that is a great fight, but maybe he shouldn't be his next opponent, because he hasn't fought since the Bellew loss, and maybe he needs to get active again, it's difficult to say. I think that's the best fight at 200!

I think he is a fighter who rises to the occasion. Yeah so his chin, his heart, his durability, he's certainly far from invincible, and he isn't unbeatable. I don't think laziness would be an issue, because he would be motivated, but stamina, maybe. That's a nore popular fight, but I want to see Rigondeaux vs Quigg more, personally, but that's just my opinion, I think Frampton vs Quigg II should definitely happen, I mean for goodness sake, all that s*** Quigg took from ungrefatul fans, from round 4 onwards (the round in which he got his broken), it was an even fight in my opinion, Frampton definitely won, but it was close in my opinion, it was definitely competitive, and it was extremely entertaining, after doing what he did in the last half of the fight, with a broken jaw, and making it close in the majority of opinions, Quigg deserves a rematch.

I think they might make Usyks fight a showcase fight. Since he's fighting on a big card and everyones watching maybe they won't give him a hard hitter like Makabu. Also there's a chance that Makabu wouldn't be interested in fighting him just yet after coming off a brutal ko.

I agree. He's not unbeatable like most people say he is. My big question is his chin. He can only avoid getting hit for so long in a fight and he will get hit in these fights and I want to see how he reacts when Lomachenko or Frampton hits him. After Santa Cruz Frampton should give Quigg a rematch. Quigg definitely deserves a rematch.

Champion97's picture

Yes, simple as that, but I also think there are some who do it just to fit in, and then admit they never liked it later in life.

I'm not sure we can put it down to just that, again, good point, and politics does play a big part in boxing nowadays, but I don't tginm the situation is that black and white, not every fighter in Mayweather's gym (what I call) jumps the queue for a world title shot, he is undefeated, with a massive KO ratio, but again, it's an explanation as tk why ge got the shot, but not a justification.

I can see a split decision coming, I'm going with Degale now, you?