Amir Khan vs Samuel Vargas Scorecard by Gold


scorecard by GOLD
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
AMIR KHAN
10
9
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
9
10
10
118
SAMUEL VARGAS
9
8
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
10
9
9
108

Fight:



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Amir Khan

Samuel Vargas



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Comments

Gold's picture

Khan looked like trash in this fight. Vargas is not a good fighter, he was meant to come in and give Khan rounds but also to make Khan look good. Khan has regressed so much since when he was with Virgil Hunter. He still has great hand speed and accuracy but terrible movement, terrible stamina and terrible defense. If Khan is serious about coming back he needs to go back to Virgil Hunter because he looks really one dimensional with Goosen. If he isn't serious about it he should make the fight with Brook and cash out. This version of Khan versus Spence or Crawford gets knocked out worse than he did versus Canelo and Brook would stop him as well. I'm confident even Old Man Manny Pacquiao would beat this Khan.

Champion97's picture

100%
Khan is a cherry picker!
It is funny that he fought Vargas to beat him better than Garcia and Spence did, to make himself look good and fool people, and he failed, got dropped!, man, Khan should retire, or at least if he is going to cash out, have one last hoorah, just go for it and spare people's time, because this fool would get mashed by Crawford, Spence, Porter, Garcia, still Thurman, and I think Lejarraga would smash him as well.

Gold's picture

He is a cherry picker now but he fought and beat a lot of good opponents at Super Lightweight and Welterweight, he deserves credit for that at least. It's just a shame because if he could fight at the level he fought at under Hunter he'd be a good challenge for the top guys, but that was years ago now and he very well may have declined significantly physically.

Champion97's picture

Fair point, but until now?, no, he has been calling out leftovers for years, he always fights opponents who have already been beaten and well beaten by his rivals, and fighting Samuel Vargas, trying to take advantage of Vargas's inability to even win a round against Spence or Garcia, well that didn't work, because he couldn't get him out of there, might have lost uo to 2 rounds, and got dropped.

I don't agree about Hunter, Khan is declining because of his age, the 10 kncokdowns, the 3 brutal stoppage defeats, the miles, the inactivity, and his mentality, not because his trainer isn't good enough, but I agree he didn't need to change trainers. I hate it when fighters lose because they are not good enough, or through their own idiocy, and they don't take responsibility, blame the trainer, just like Kovalev.

Gold's picture

He was facing good opposition up until he had the long layoff.

Khan looked better in ways that aren't connected to him physically declining with Hunter, his ring generalship was a lot better, he put himself in better positions to be defensively responsible, and his movement was a lot more economical and clean. It's not that he's declining because of his calendar age, he's only 31, it's because of his ring age. He can theoretically polish the strengths he once had back up, it's just a question of if he can mentally do it. He didn't look physically very good either for this fight and his stamina was bad, that's on him.

Champion97's picture

Well, he faced names, fought Alexander after Porter and Bradley beat him, tried to outdo their wins, same with Algieri.

It is that he is aging because of a combination of pure age and miles, more because of the 10 knockdowns, etc, but 31 is not young, and if Khan was 28, but with the same damage, he would be much less declined.

I don't think so, when a fighter is past his best, he's past his best, Khan will only get worse. He doesn't have the mentality.

Gold's picture

The Collazo win was also good given how easily he won. At Super Lightweight he really does have a great resume, beat Kotelnik, Malignaggi, Maidana, old Judah, robbed versus Peterson and only really lost to Garcia. If he were 28 fighting with the same style and stamina issues he used versus Vargas he'd still look bad. As I said, the things he did better with Hunter he can still do, those aren't as affected by aging and 31 is not old by itself. Like you said just had a long and punishing career. I think he can improve on this performance because it was so bad, but I agree he doesn't have the mentality for it anymore.

Champion97's picture

2014 Khan was without the best Khan, 2015, 16, maybe 17, they would have been his years. I don't agree at all, 28-31 are 3 very important years, 28 is young, mature, prime age, 31 is the age when you are likely starting to dip, and if you have miles at 28, you are usually just in the later part of what will be a short lived prime, but are currently still at your best, and granted, Crawford, in a years time, might be every bit as good as he is now, because he is fresher than any other fighter in the world with over 30 fights, but no, he is a not young, not old fighter who might not significantly decline until 35, if he was heavyweight, he might be this good for another decade, but for a welterweight, 31 is not young, and a fighter with miles, like Khan, don't last and stay young in those years, but if he was 28, with same miles, they wouldn't have caught up to him, aged him like they have, age is age, and those 3 years make a big difference.

I think you overestimate the significance of Hunter/Goosen, Khan is declining because he is 31 and has been dropped 10 times, beaten up a few times, been inactive, not because of his trainer, Goosen is a great trainer, Khan could go to Hunter, but that wouldn't make a difference I don't think, and his mentality and physicality now comapred to 4 years ago, is not about trainers.

His attitude, lack of tactical discipline, I mean mental wekanesses and an increasingly vulnerable chin is a bad combination, and although you might think it was a bad performance more than just Khan's limit, it wasn't just a lacklustre sloppy performance, it was a tough fight, a fight Khan was really occupied in, inactivity was relevant, so I agree, he has the capability of beating Vargas better than he did, but as the ring rust goes, the miles still pile up, that knockdown adds, 31, 32, 33, he is getting old. Overall, Khan is capable of maybe slightly better than against Vargas, but I think Crawford/Spence vs Khan would be mismatches.

Gold's picture

I think saying 28-31 is the prime years and after that people likely start to dip is too broad of a generalization and with today's training and nutrition careers are longer than they used to be. It's not that Khan should be as good as he was at 28, it's that he can be doing things better that aren't age related but are related to discipline, strategy, and craft.

It's not that he has bad footwork, stamina, and defense because he's 31 and has a lot of miles, it's because he is not disciplined enough to do the right things in a fight which take patience. He didn't get tagged and dropped by Vargas because he's 31 and he has physically declined, it's because he isn't being defensively responsible and making the right strategic moves. Not to say Goosen isn't a good trainer, but he wasn't giving Khan very good advice and we did see a more responsible and strategic Khan with Hunter, so it is worth a shot.

He's relatively chinny but I think the notion that he has a glass chin is overstated by a lot of people, like I said before, in the Vargas fight he's getting caught clean with his hands way out not being defensively responsible at all. That's versus Samuel Vargas too. Like you said he's definitely a worn down fighter. Hopefully, he can get it together if he's going to fight Brook so he doesn't totally get embarrassed. Do you know if there is any real talk of Pac vs. Khan? I heard Thurman has a comeback fight planned so I doubt the WBA will strip him, but Pac vs. Khan will make financial sense regardless. Pac has basically cut all ties with Top Rank by suing them, so we almost certainly won't see him versus Loma or Crawford.

Champion97's picture

I understand, it is not that black and white, but it is very likely that that is the age, for a strawweight, probably 25-29, by 32, they are an old fighter I would say, old on the age scale, but as we both know, it doesn't matter if a fighter who hs been knocked down 15 times, sparked 6 times, and been in 10 wars is 35 or 25, they are likely going to be on the slide, I do acknowledge that fresh fighters decline very slowly, sometimes, it is almost no decline, and they are such good fighters they know how to work around and even compensate for the first few years past their prime age. But, nevertheless, age is age, it is science, regardless of damage, a 31 year old welterweight, is likely to be delcining slowly, 99.9% definitely at 33, slowly? Quite possibly, more and more slowly as time moves on? Absolutely. I would say a heavyweight is always going to be declining at some rate by 35 or 36 tops, and at the opposite end, it is maybe 5 years earlier, in equivalent terms, and I am talking about the age aspect, just isolating everything else, but in reality, age is a factor, not the whole scenario, damage, mentality, origin, other aspects, I understand that. I also agree, but might I point out that with Hunter, he almost got himself stopped by a past prime Julio Diaz, made a lot of mistakes against Algieri, these mistakes aren't new, if there were more against Vargas, it is inactivity, not trainer related, I don't think.

He didn't get tagged because he is has a bad chin, he got dropped because he has a bad chin. Khan is Khan, Kovalev is Kovalev, these ungrateful people don't change, they blame their trainers and take no responsibility, if I were Hunter, I wouldn't want to train Khan again.

I'm trying to be constructive, whether you exaggerate it or not, call it relatively weak, call it glass, at the end of the day, if you were breaking chins into 3 categories, Granite, Not An Issue, Not A Particular Strength, and, A Weakness, a Real Issue, 'haters who say he is china-chinned would categorise him in the last of those 3 and so would you. No I don't, there has been plenty of talk from Khan, but I haven't heard any from anyone else. And that's fair, IF he is returning this year. Can't say I'm disappointed, whether I like him or not, I don't like seeing boxing legends get battered because they are too old and don't know when to retire for their own well being.

For Thurman's next opponent, I wouldn't be surprised if it was Berto, but I wouldn't mind seeing Thurman vs Granados, because of activity being on Granados's side, that could be a risky fight, I doubt Thurman would take that one.

I do not want to raise your hopes falsely, because it is an early stage, but yiu are in the lead, if you win this month, that's two in a row, a new record.

Gold's picture

Probably, it's not that I disagree with what you are saying about aging and miles in regards to Khan, it's that he's doing things poorly that he can fix regardless of if he is aged. You can just as easily say he looked as good as he ever did versus Collazo and Alexander, he also looked good versus Canelo. At this point in his career, he should be grasping at potential fixes and one is Hunter.

A lot of fighters out there aren't getting hit with as many clean shots to the chin that Khan takes, sure someone like Golovkin and Froch can take those shots but many fighters aren't him. He has a below average chin like you said but it's not glass.

I think it'll be someone like Berto too which is not really interesting. I don't think Granados would have a chance to win but he'd be more competitive than Berto who'd get KO'd and get people thinking Thurman's power is back.

It'll probably go up in smoke this week with Canelo vs. Golovkin or Lemieux vs. O'Sullivan. I feel pretty confident about the Lemieux vs. O'Sullivan pick though. There are a lot of 50/50 matchups this month so everyone is still in it.

Champion97's picture

I think it is about inactivity, maybe that's why he didn't look so sloppy, make mistakes against Alexander, Alvarez, more than about trainers. Ok, but that was because in 2014, he was 27-28, experienced, didn't have as much damage as he does now, and he was fairly active, not because of Hunter, and let's not forget, with Roach, against Garcia, for 2-3 rounds, Khan was good, it was only when he made that mistake with the right uppercut and got tagged.

I think it is inactivity, as well as Khan being Khan, not consistent, not mentally sound pr tactically disciplined, but he didn't lose many rounds against Vargas, he didn't get hit clean with many, only, when he did get hit clean, the shots took affect. Not glass meaning, 'that's disrespectful, don't call any boxer glass jaw'?, or meaning some fighters have glass chins but Khan doesn't?, Khan has a naturally weak chin, he got dropped by Willie Limond, and another fighter at that level, Prescott just mashed him, and because he has a lot of miles now, it is a bad combination, naturally vulnerable chin, punch resistance weakened from double figure digit knockdowns, 3 stoppage losses, and a few beatings, therefore, now, if a fighter who doesn't lack power and it a moderate sort of puncher (let's say 55% KOs), hits him clean, he will likely not withstand it and soak it up, he has heart, he is tough, but be as tough as you like, if you can't absorb it, your chin doesn't hold up, you are going down.

I do, Granados is still young, the best fighter with 6 losses, on the planet, showed us a lot against Porter, came close against Broner, stopped Amir Imam, Thurman, for his first fight back, would have his work cut out for him, I would lean towards him, but I would give Granados a 40% shot, probably only a 20% shot if Thurman was as good as he can be, but coming off 18 months-2 years, out, I don't know. Berto has never had a good chin, but it would still be a good fight.

I see why you think that, Lemieux is one of the biggest punchers in boxing, but there isn't much else that can be said for him, his head movement is inconsistent and wasteful, he is slow and ponderous, doesn't have a jab, lacks body work for a come forward fighter, lacks skill at this level, I wouldn't be shocked if O'Sullivan won, but I think Lemieux will spark him mid.

Gold's picture

He definitely needed rounds but they obviously weren't supposed to be as difficult as they were. He was in versus Samuel Vargas though, not Alexander, Collazo, Alvarez, someone of Khan's skill level should be able to be in his lower gears and get the rounds in like we saw Fury do versus Pianeta. As I've said plenty of times, the things he was doing with Hunter were things he should be able to do that don't degrade as easily with damage and physical miles. Khan was really good at 140 lbs, he was good with Roach too but I think he was even more complete with Hunter, he just didn't get the opportunities he got at Super Lightweight.

It's arguable Hunter emphasized and brought a new level of tactics and discipline that Khan needed to him. He almost lost versus Vargas, if he gets hit with some of those shots that rocked him early in the round instead of at the end there's a good chance he loses. O'Connor also bought him some time early in the fight when he was hurt. Yeah he's been dropped a lot and been KO'd cold, but if his chin was totally trash it would been impossible for him to go twelve and win versus Maidana. A lot of his knockdowns simply come down to getting hit clean when other boxers don't get timed and hit like that which is a stylistic weakness of Khan.

That's an interesting claim to fame I guess lol, and yeah I know he's had decent performances before. It's hard for me to believe in someone who is knowing for be competitive in losses though. Berto is a good opponent for Thurman if Thurman can get the knockout, people will think "One Time" is back by getting a highlight KO which would drum up some hype for Spence vs. Thurman.

Yeah there are some other reasons why I think Lemieux will lose too such as weight and motivation issues as of late. Like you said Lemieux always has at least a punchers chance though.

Champion97's picture

I think Jeff Horn beats him! Granados might, Jessie Vargas.

Gold's picture

Probably, Khan did not look like a top 15 Welterweight let alone a top 10 or top 5 Welterweight.