Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting Kovalev because he is old

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Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting Kovalev because he is old

mean let's not kid ourselves here. Kovalev is a nice big name on Canelo's resume and he will probably drain him to get an advantage.

Would any of you guys seriously think Canelo would try to fight a 30 year old Kovalev? The one that was destroying Pascal and dropping Ward? Hell no...

And if you do think that...why isn't he mentioning any of the other active but younger champions at light Heavyweight like Bivol? Bivol is at DAZN as well so that fight would be easier to make. It's because Kovalev is old now, that's why...

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

He's still fighting a devastating puncher at 175. You can't win in boxing, if he was fighting a young Kovalev he'd be stupid.

He wouldn't, but so what? That's a case of him listening to his team when they say it is too high risk, Alvarez has proven to be a top fighter, beat Golovkin fair and square, he isn't a fighter who doesn't take risks, he's doing what has gone wrong for other fighters like Khan, Brook, Mikey, moving up 2 weights and fighting a dangerous opponent.

Because he is too intelligent for that, what you want is for Canelo to lose, I get it, I've never been a Canelo fan either, I don't root for him to win, but at the end of the day, if he takes a winnable fight, you don't like it, and Bivol, Gvozdyk, etc, Canelo and his team know are too high risk and not worth it, why take a fight you don't think you'll win? You have to be confident you will beat your opponent in a sport like this, is Mayweather a coward for not coming out of retirement and fighting Pacquiao again? No, so why does Canelo deserve criticism for not calling out the top dogs at 175? I would agree if he was calling out Hopkins for a return, or Ward coming off 2 years out, but Kovalev is active, not aging anywhere near as badly as he seemed, has the right trainer, might not have the skill, stamina of Bivol and the others, but he certainly has the power, that is the balance between cherry picking a retired Ward or Hopkins, which would still be good victories on paper, and going a step too far, and fighting possible top 20 fighters, who are 2 or 3 natural weight classes above you.

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

What you are saying makes sense and I get why he is fighting Kovalev. As long as we agree he is just fighting Kovalev because he is old now (and gasses + is vulnerable to the body), I'm good with you.

I'm just a bit tired of all the diva nonsense Canelo is pushing man. I didn't think he beat Golovkin, I had him losing both fights. But he also aged GGG out. He Popped for PEDs, dropped out the rematch. There are always asterisks next to his biggest wins. There just are man. Now dropped his belt and won't fight GGG in a trilogy fight.
And he will probably drain Kovalev somehow too. Add to that the horrible judging that goes on in Canelo fights and the chance of Kovalev actually winning becomes slim.

I will say tho. If Canelo fights Kovalev and doesn't drain him in anyway...I will give him alot of credit! But I get the feeling he won't. And I'd pick Kov to win in that instance, otherwise Canelo probably gets to him.

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

He's fighting him to be win a belt at another weight and get a very good win, he will be confident he can win for those reasons.

He waited until Golovkin was past prime, agreed, I thought he lost the first fight, the second was very close, but I thought he beat Golovkin by just a couple of points, I think on 2015, Golovkin would have beat him, but he did not fight a shot or far past prime Golovkin, a steadily declining, slightly past prime Golovkin. Many fighters have failed tests, Canelo's reputation has been tainted, don't worry about that. That's because it's personal and he doesn't want to give him a payday, and if he fought Golovkin again, then what, he'd get more stick for fighting an older Golovkin.

If he either makes him get below 175 or more likely puts a rehydration clause in the contract, there is an argument for that, otherwise no. There has been no dodgy judging for Canelo since 2017, plenty before then, but last year or this year, that bad scoring has there been?

Just stop with the bias man, you're more intelligent than this, Wilder, Canelo, Joshua, Golovkin, can all be criticised and defended, it is annoying that people have to spin it a certain way.

For what it is worth, I agree Canelo would have lost to Golovkin had he been just a little but younger, and there were 1-2 bad cards for him in a lot of fights.

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

The only reason the cards have gotten better is because there was so much criticism of the biased and probably corrupt cards in Canelo fights.

And I'm not biased against Canelo man, I have him as #1 p4p right now, but he deserves the criticism. He is acting like a diva

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

So why did it take so long? The criticism after the CJ Ross draw in the Mayweather fight was more than in any other fight.

How is he acting like a Diva? By fighting Kovalev? Like I said, don't be one of those man, I agree the 'Franchise champion' is a joke, but Canelo is a fighter who has worked his way up to the top, whatever you say about Canelo, you are saying arguably the best fighter in the world is a Diva. It's all a load of nonsense, all this stuff, GGG has no resume, chose to fight bums, Wilder is a ducker, Joshua is a ducker, and Canelo is a diva, is all stupid.

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

He is a diva for not wanting to give GGG a chance to get his belts back and for not fighting any of his mandatories. He feels like he is above that somehow. Also a diva for basically creating his own weight division at 155. DAZN signed Canelo and Golovkin so they could have a big trilogy fight to attract subscribers.
Canelo put himself above that and said "no I'm not fighting GGG again, I don't like him"...how is that not Diva behaviour. And yeah that franchise champion bullshit is another good example. There are alot of reasons

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

Kovalev at 175 is a tougher fight than GGG at 160 in my opinion, they are both old, I know Golovkin is more versatile, less vulnerable, not as many miles, but Golovkin is declining as well, isn't even a big middleweight, and for pure power, Kovalev hits light heavyweights harder than Golovkin hits middleweights. You gave Wilder a hard time for rematching Ortiz, and if Canelo gave Golovkin the rematch, you would criticise him for fighting an older Golovkin. Depends what the mandatories are, he did avoid Charlo, the guy you said was a big hype job, but what fight at 160 is more potentially dangerous than the Kovalev fight? No, he is a prillivaled fighter, has a lot of power, more power than maybe he should, but there are 2 ways of looking at that, because you could say he could have dragged Cotto up to 160. I know it is Golden Boy and not DAZN who Canelo is having issues with, but that is part the reason for the recent managerial disputes, the third fight would be a big fight, but everyone knows the age factor makes it less of a 50/50 fight.

It's personal, there is back and fourth between them, I'm not saying it's reasonable, not saying I'm on Canelo's side, because I'm not, I am on Golovkin's side because the failed test made them go from two professionals who shook hands, to sworn enemies, but you can't get too upset about that, it isn't like he is fighting a one dimensional, technically poor Lemieux and buildong the hype with Lemieux's one attribute which is his power, he is declining the Golovkin fight for another very interesting fight, and a fight we have not already seen twice.

You do not have to like Canelo, don't get carried away is all I'm saying, if the Kovalev fight happens, just accept it for what it is. Surely it's a fight you'd look forward to, Kovalev vs Canelo, very interesting fight that has the makings to be a war.

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

Let me just start of by saying I am a bigger Kovalev fan than I am a Golovkin fan. I shit on Golovkin for fighting Rolls, I thought that was absolutely awful.

The thing is, I always was a big Canelo fan before he failed that PED test. It opened my eyes to all the BS that surrounds his name. All the corruption...

But you can't call me a hater of any kind. He is a phenomenal fighter, I have him #1 p4p. No one who hates Canelo would have him that high. Because i could easily dismiss his accomplishments and praise someone elses. I don't. I'm more fair than you think man

Now let me just break it down what you just said:
"Kovalev at 175 is a tougher fight than GGG at 160 in my opinion, they are both old, I know Golovkin is more versatile, less vulnerable, not as many miles, but Golovkin is declining as well, isn't even a big middleweight, and for pure power, Kovalev hits light heavyweights harder than Golovkin hits middleweights."

Yes perhaps this is true, I didn't say I didn't like the fight...I just gave the reason why Canelo is fighting Kovalev right now. And it seems like you don't disagree with me. So what are we arguing about here. My main problem is that I feel like Canelo is going to drain Kovalev to have an advantage. That would absolutely destroy the fight imo. Kovalev has said in interviews he finds it difficult to always go down to 175. He is old, vulnerable to the body and gasses. We can all agree on that. He will probably be very poor if he gets drained somehow. He will tire even earlier, his punches will be weaker and won't take body punches well. With a third Golovkin fight there wouldn't be any complications like that. Canelo had to give his absolute all to squeeze out a victory in Vegas Vs Golovkin and that took him 2 fights. You think he wants to go through that again? I doubt it.

"You gave Wilder a hard time for rematching Ortiz, and if Canelo gave Golovkin the rematch, you would criticise him for fighting an older Golovkin."
Umm...no I wouldn't. Both Canelo-GGG fights were very close, it warrants a rematch. I still think the majority had GGG winning both fights. I wouldn't criticise Canelo at all what are you talking about? I do criticise Wilder because he already knocked Ortiz out, it warrants no rematch. He beat him convincingly and Ortiz has looked very poor since.

"Depends what the mandatories are, he did avoid Charlo, the guy you said was a big hype job, but what fight at 160 is more potentially dangerous than the Kovalev fight? No, he is a prillivaled fighter, has a lot of power, more power than maybe he should, but there are 2 ways of looking at that, because you could say he could have dragged Cotto up to 160. I know it is Golden Boy and not DAZN who Canelo is having issues with, but that is part the reason for the recent managerial disputes, the third fight would be a big fight, but everyone knows the age factor makes it less of a 50/50 fight"

The age factor is just as prevalent in the Kovalev fight. Atleast GGG won't be drained man. And im not big on Charlo no, but I wouldn't shit on the fight because he is a mando and top 10.

"You do not have to like Canelo, don't get carried away is all I'm saying, if the Kovalev fight happens, just accept it for what it is. Surely it's a fight you'd look forward to, Kovalev vs Canelo, very interesting fight that has the makings to be a war."

I will look forward to every Kovalev fight, I'm a big fan of his. But I don't want to see him get used by Canelo as a name on resume in exchange for some money. Do you get what I mean? I don't want to see him drain himself and look like a corpse in the ring...like Chad Dawson did for Ward.
And I already said if Kovalev doesn't get drained by Canelo it is a great fight and I will be betting on the Krusher to win.

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

It was just a tune up man, just a showcase, an introduction to the channel, he isn't living off that win, and now he is fighting Derevyanchenko, who is a good fighter, underrated in my opinion.

Ok, I was also very disappointed, boxing should be drugs free.

I'm not calling you a hater, I just think you are taking certain things too seriously.

Yes, and as I said, to take a fight, have a hard camp, you have to believe you can win, the Golovkin fight is just more of an inbetween, less weaknesses to capitalise upon, but also lower risk in a few ways. Kovalev is not only much more capable of hurting Canelo than Golovkin is, but he also has that long reach which he uses extremely well. We are arguing about whether or not Canelo should be criticised for fighting Kovalev instead of Golovkin. Are we not?

It depends on what the clause is, if he makes Kovalev stay under 185, certainly 180, then I agree, but if he puts in a rehydration clause of 190, then Kovalev shouldn't be drained in the fight. Kovalev and his team need to know how light Kovalev can be and still be hydrated, so they can make sure they don't a sign a contract with a rehydration clause which is too strict, but although a rehydration clause seems highly likely, it should be more a case of Kovalev not being able to take advantage, weight bully and try to build on his size advantage, Canelo is privileged to be able to stop him doing that, lucky to have that power, but that is not the same as Kovalev being forced to fight dehydrated, but Kovalev and his team should know how much weight he needs. I agree, Canelo should get a lot less credit for fighting Kovalev if he puts in a rehydration clause of 185 or less, and a weight drained fighter can't take body shots. That makes sense, I agree, but remember the extreme liklihood that Canelo can repeat his performance from the second fight and Golovkin can't, it is still a very tough fight, and more importantly, it isn't as high reward as the Kovalev fight.

I think 99% of us agree the rematch was a 2 point swing either way, the first fight seems to be a combination of 8-4 for Golovkin, 6-6 and between. It isn't the same as if Golovkin had won because he is the older fighter, which makes the third fight more predictable, like Joshua vs Klitschko II would have been, but more improtantly, Wilder was controversially ahead by 1 point, most unofficial scorers had him behind, he was hurt bad in round 7, on the edge of being stopped. You know exactly what I'm talking about, if you are sure you wouldn't criticise Canelo for fighting Golovkin again I'll take your word for it, but you can't blame for jumping to that conclusion. You can't say the rematch is a bad match up after that first fight?, remember how close Ortiz came to the stoppage, and how well he boxed up to then. Ortiz hasn't look terrible, just not great, like Golovkin, he is aging, declining slowly.

Yes they are both old, but Kovalev is not as old, especially given the size, but more improtantly, this is just a case of give and take, he is moving up 2 weights and fighting a devastating puncher, if Canelo doesn't stop Kovalev rehydrating, you have to give him credit for fighting Kovalev, and given that you think he'd lose, you'll struggle to argue with that.

So at the end of the day, the problem you have is not so much with Canelo fighting Kovalev but more with the possibility of him not letting Kovalev rehydrate?

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

Yes that is my problem with the fight...that it probably isn't going to be on even level playing field.
It won't be a fair fight if Kovalev is drained. I just hope Kov doesn't let Canelo fuck him around. He should just say "if you drain me then no fight". But I have the fear he might cash out. I'd hate to see that happen.

But the thread wasn't exactly about that. It was more about how Canelo keeps fighting these dudes who are old and out of their prime and that it's the only reason why he would fight Kovalev...but we agree on that so we don't have to argue about it.

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

I agree Kovalev should be allowed to rehydrate, if he isn't allowed to build on his weight advantage, that's just a perk of having the power Canelo rightly or wrongly has, but that isn't the same as not being allowed to rehydrate to a weight you need to be so you are not drained, so it depends what the limit is. That's on him, fighters turn down fights for reasons, and if the rehydration clause is less than 185, or Canelo tries to get it at a catchweight, Kovalev should turn it down.

We don't agree, you are complaining about a fighter fighting an opponent who is old but not shot, when he's moving up 2 weights from a weight he isn't even big at, Kovalev is old, what's your point? Canelo wouldn't do it if Kovalev was younger and had less known weaknesses? So what? That means Canelo still doesn't deserve a lot of credit (assuming it is at 175 and the rehydration clause is enough for Kovalev to hydrate)? Well if Kovalev was unbeaten and younger, winning would be a very, very big ask for Canelo, he is not stupid, he knows he would probably lose. You can make a case against any fighter if you want, yes Canelo is fighting an old Kovalev, which makes it more of a 50/50 fight rather than a fight he realistically can't win, let it go, it is still a fight he is up against it in. If Canelo doesn't make Kovalev fight him weight drained, you think Kovalev wins, so you can't criticise Canelo for taking a fight you think he'll lose.

If Crawford jumped up to 160 and fought GGG in a few years, would you criticise him for fighting an old man rather than a prime Golovkin?

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

That all depends on how Golovkin will look and if he would have lost more fights in the meantime...
If he looked shot, yes I would. Especially when there are great fights to make in the weight class.
I would prefer Bivol Vs Canelo at 168 even or Callum Smith Vs Canelo at 168...you? I'm just not a big fan of the whole jumping 2 weight classes thing. The winner almost never gets credit and there are alot of asterisks behind it. Like small details that heavily impact the outcome: in this case it's Kovalev being drained or not.

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

What you're not thinking about is the importance of believing you can win, why do you think Pacquiao fought so many good fighters but won't fight Spence? Too scared?, no, he won't fight Spence or Crawford because he knows he'd lose, same with Crawford and Canelo, they are not stupid, they know when they can't win, and to think you can beat an opponent who might be almost as good as you, 2-3 natural weights above you, who is in his prime, is unrealistic, you can't hold Canelo to fighting Bivol at 175 or Gvozdyk, Beterbiev (I know about the network, that's beside the point), just like you can't hold Crawford to fighting Andrade, Canelo, or a prime Golovkin at 160. You have to take risks in boxing, but fighting Kovalev who isn't shot, at 175, is a big risk, there is taking risks, and then there is taking fights you know you can't win.

Yes, but Canelo has made it very clear the Smith fight is an option, the Bivol fight is also a good option, they might both be better than Kovalev, are in their prime, but Kovalev is still good, he is obviously not shot, look at his last two fights, is a devastating puncher, and Canelo is probably going to 175, not dragging Kovalev down to 168 or a catchweight.

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

Who says Pacquiao won't fight Spence? I think it is highly likely that fight happens soon. Where are you getting this from? And Pacquiao is 40 years old with a cemented legacy, Canelo is in his prime. You can't compare the two.

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only

He has said it, admitted he doesn't want the fight, here https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.youtube....

Come on man, it's obvious why I'm comparing the two, Pacquiao has been at 147 for years, Spence is at 147, Canelo is at 160, not big for the weight, Kovalev is at 175, I obviously wouldn't comapre Canelo fighting anyone at 160 to Pacquiao fighting Spence. Pacquiao would fight Spence if he was going to cash out, but I doubt he'll do that, I don't think that's his mindset, I think he likes boxing too much to just have one last hurrah, when he retires, it will be because he loses to a non-top 100 fighter, not because he's just had enough, so Pacquiao, at 40, knowing he can't beat Spence, will not fight him.

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only

Ummm...that is from before he beat Keith Thurman. How he performed in that fight could have gave him a confident boost. I'm not sure he wouldn't fight him man. I wouldn't be surprised if that fight is made. But anyway, i'm not mad at that. Pacquiao is a legend with a cemented legacy and is 40 y/o.
If Canelo wants a belt at 175 he can do it the fair way. Or not go up there at all. Because the thing is he won't even defend the 175lbs title if he wins. It will mess up the division and a unification with Gvozdyk-Beterbiev winner. Just like how Spence Vs Mikey messed up the Lomachenko unification.
This is the part I don't like. It's bad enough with multiple champs in every division, but we know he's not going to defend it so the situation just gets more confused and there is even less meaning in titles.

I also don't like the fight for that reason. I think it's dumb. I'll just leave it at that

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only

That makes no sense, no reason to think he was surprised by anything in that fight, Thurman is not Spence, and he had had one fight after 2 years out, he knew he couldn't beat Spence after he saw him shut out a guy he thought would beat him. Well you're just holding onto your argument, no logic behind it, he wouldn't fight Spence for the reasons I said, knows he wouldn't win, not the sort of fighter who wants to retire and be set for life financially, so it makes no sense to take a fight he knows he'd lose.

I'm not mad at Pacquiao either, I don't expect a 40 year old Pacquiao who should already have retired in my opinion, for not fighting top fighters in their prime, but there is no more reason to be mad at a prime fighter for not fighting the best in the division when the division is 2 above his division which he is not even big at, than there is to be mad an old fighter for not fighting guys on his level, in their era, do you understand that?

Do it the fair way? This is what I was talking about, the bias, you can rank Canelo the best of all time if you want, but holding a fighter to unrealistic standards to give yourself an argument is what you are doing, Kovalev is a world champion, and a legitimate one, he beat Alvarez (who was good enough for Stevenson to avoid him) for the title, in a revenge win, he was Ward's rival, and he is not shot, and you say moving up 2 weights and beating him for a belt is not doing it the fair way? So what?, he'll vacate the belt and go back down to fight Smith, Golovkin etc, and you'll find another reason to criticise him, and there's no need to get defensive, but you think Canelo is 'a diva', and that is affecting your ability to think rationally. You get what you work for, if Canelo doesn't take the unwise risks of fighting the best at 175, he won't be a unified 175lb champion, just a brief champion at the weight, and if he beats Kovalev who isn't shot (doesn't drain him), he more than earns credit as a 4 weight champion, and a light heavyweight champion, you can't have it both ways, you would pick Kovalev to win, so you must think beating him is a very big ask, therefore, you would surely be impressed if Alvarez beat Kovalev, if this fight was what you make it out to be, you wouldn't pick Alvarez to lose.

It will not mess up the division, Beterbiev and Gvozdyk do not need all 4 belts. No, the unification was already messed up well before the Spence fight, Arum and Garcia could not work together. Bad enough with multiple champs in every division? I don't understand that, realistically, there will not be one champion in every division, you won't be satisfied unless despite all the hurdles, the best fight the best and there is only one champion? That's what it seems like. If Canelo beats Kovalev, he will have the title because he beat the champion who had it, there is the meaning.

Couldn't disagree more, it is a very interesting fight.

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only

It's a good fight if Canelo doesn't drain him. I have been repeating that alot already. But don't get it twisted why he is fighting him...

And no Pacquiao never said he wouldn't fight Spence, that video you linked is just a guy talking. No interview or anything...

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only

Oh I also just saw the video linked. That is complete BS there. Dontae is well known for being incredibly biased and pushing agenda's for fighters he likes and pushing agenda's against fighters he doesn't like. Pacquiao is one of those he always disliked.and Spence happens to be one he likes. I watched the whole video and it was just him talking. Nowhere did I see Pacquiao say that he doesn't want the Spence fight. Very poor source. I knew it was bs

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

Of course, a natural Super Welterweight/Middleweight in Canelo wouldn't fight a prime top ten Light Heavyweight of all time. That would be insane. It is extremely hard to go up two weight classes at that high of a weight and win a title under any circumstances. There are three boxers who have won titles at Super Welterweight and Light Heavyweight: Tommy Hearns (two-time Light Heavyweight champion, beat Dennis Andries and Virgil Hill to win his titles), Ray Leonard (beat Donny Lalonde at Super Middleweight, has an asterisk), and Mike McCallum (beat Jeff Harding). It is an elite company if Canelo beats even this version of Kovalev, who is still likely better than Andries, Lalonde, and Harding, and Canelo would deserve credit for it.

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

canelo is not a natural super welterweight he is a natural midleweight/super midleweight

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

He is not a natural super middleweight, his size is exaggerated, he is not that big, bigger than the average 5'9 fighter because of his build, but he is not a big middleweight, he may be a natural middleweight, but maybe light middleweight, certainly not super middleweight.

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

Canelo isn't even capable of making 154 for years now...why do you think he created 155? He is far from a natural Super welterweight. I agree he is a natural middleweight and he looked very big in that Rocky Fielding fight. I heard rumours he weighs about 185lbs on fight night.

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

He isn't, he chose to move up 160, he didn't have to, he made 154, age 26, his size is exaggerated, why do you think he struggled with Golovkin's size in the first fight? He didn't look big in the Fielding fight, very strong, but Fielding got backed not because he wasn't bigger than his opponent but because he didn't know how not to get backed up. Don't read too much into that, some fighters weigh more than others in the ring, if Canelo was as big as people say, he wouldn't be able to make 154, not saying he can make that now because he built himself into the division, he could probably make 158, but he made 154 after the 155 catchweight fights against Khan and Cotto.

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

He fought in nine title fights at Super Welterweight up until age 27. He was a natural Super Welterweight that's grown into a Middleweight.

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

Nope. He was young back then. At his prime, which is now.. he is a natural middleweight. That is what counts. And how many of those fights were actually at 154?

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

exactly

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

Again, as I said he fought in nine title fights at Super Welterweight until age 27, and he was someone who started early in boxing. There were five and a half years between his first title appearance at Super Welterweight and his last. He was a natural Super Welterweight for part of his career, grew out of it, and now he is a natural Middleweight.

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

he fought at super welterweight but he wasn't a natural super welterweight that's different

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

So you are saying someone who fought for titles nine times at a weight class over five and a half years wasn't naturally at that weight?

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

to be claear he was a natural super-welterweight 2 or 3 fight at of the 9 after he did a lot of cathweigh and cutting when he was youg that's wasn't his complete size you know what I mean??

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

Canelo Alvarez has only made the 154lbs limit once since he was 24.

He is not a natural Super welterweight

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

So? Whether it was once or 10 times, he made 154 and was good in the Smith fight, don't get carried away with the 155 thing, I understand how important that last lb is when you cut weight, but as I've said, it is still much closer to 154 than 160, and more importantly, he made 154 at age 26, after the Khan and Cotto fights. Alvarez is a natural super welterweight.

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

I disagree. He is in his prime now and he can't make 154lbs anymore. His a natural middleweight

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

What I just said to NF.

If he wanted to cut muscle, if the bigger fights were at 154 than 160-175, I reckon he could get down to 154, he would have to cut muscle, would be very tough, because cutting muscle is a lot harder than building muscle or cutting fat, but Alvarez makes 160 easy, has bulked up.

Alvarez is a natural light middleweight, but even if he was a natural middleweight, which he in all liklihood is not, he is a good 2 natural weights below Kovalev, but Golovkin was clearly the naturally bigger fighter against Alvarez, and he isn't a big middleweight.

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

come on don't make you look stupid if canelo has done catchweight the only reason was that he wasn't able to make 154 and he was strugeling even for the cathweigh he is a lot better now because he is more at his natural weight

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

I'm not the one who saying things with no logic behind it, Canelo is not a natural super middleweight, he wasn't the bigger man against Jacobs or Golovkin, made 154 at 26, he could make 158 now, could cut down to 154 if it was really necessary for the big fights. That's not true, because as I've said twice today, he fought Smith at 154, after he fought Cotto and Khan at 155, fighting at 155 rather than 160 made the Khan and Cotto fights fairer, granted, they could have had more success at 154, but when going down to 154 was necessary for the title, when he fought Smith, at age 26, not when he'd cut a load of muscle, but just water, he made 154, and did great against Smith, and let's revisit that fight, who was the physically stronger?, Canelo was the faster, more explosive, had the skills, was doing more damage, attacked the body very well, but he wasn't the physically stronger. That isn't the case, he is better now because he is more experienced and has improved, weight wise, he was at a slight disadvantage against Golovkin the first time, Golovkin was physically stronger, Canelo tired, moving up in weight has not benefitted him, he obviously hits harder at the lower weights, couldn't hurt Chavez, and against Fielding, like Joe Louis said during Liston vs Clay, 'kill the body, and the head will die', he didn't have as kuch sheer power in that fight. Alvarez is a natural light middleweight, and all this stuff about 'Canelo weight', is stupid, a lot of fighters cut water to make weight and take advantage of the way weight works.

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

So what? He made the limit at 26, he won the title at 20 after already fighting as a pro for five years and fought in nine total world title bouts at Super Welterweight. He was a natural Super Welterweight but he's grown out of that weight class. The arguments around Canelo are always so ridiculous, anyone else who has fought in nine world title fights at a weight class would be considered naturally at that weight class during that time period without question, but since it is Canelo here we are. Obviously, he isn't going to make Super Welterweight now, but it is because he's grown into being a Middleweight. He's definitely not a natural Super Middleweight and never will be with his build.

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

you are ridiculous callum smith is not a natural super-midelweight and he will never be for example canelo has done catchweight that wasn't for his personal pleasure I'm a huge fan of canelo that's not the problem he was realy at 154 only when he was very yong and he body wasn't completely achived

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

Do you believe Smith will be fighting at Super Middleweight for as long as Canelo fought at Super Welterweight for? I sure don't. Also, I specifically didn't include the 155 lbs catchweight fights, he made 154 lbs for all of the fights I am talking about because they fought for the 154 lbs Super Welterweight title.

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

You're the one who is ridiculous pal, Canelo was 26 when he made 154, how long do you think it takes get your man strength?

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

we can't debate you're too obtuse

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

We strongly disagree, but the difference is, I'm backing up what I'm saying, there is no logic behind what you are saying, but I agree we should not debate this any more.

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

I will try to explain one last time what I want to say I say that he was strugeling to make 154 if he wasn't strugeling why did he do catchweight that's not logical, he is stronger at 160 but he is also faster has body is giving us the answer he was a natural super-welterweight when he was youg since then he had a period he wasn't a natural super- welterweight anymore but he has considers himself too week(not strong enought) for midleweight so he did all the catcweight that he could canelo is munch better at 160 than at 154 because he feel better in is body

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

Against Angulo, Kirkland and Lara, those were non-title fights against guys who were also 154lbs, so there was no need for a strict 154 weight. You see this often in non-title fights, so not much to take from it, and in his MW fights with Khan and Cotto, those were also against guys naturally smaller than 160, like he was, so they could do a catchweight to make the fights more viable. He went back down after to 154 and made the weight for a 154 title, so I think that says more than anything. Just because it isn’t feasible for him now, doesn’t mean he wasn’t a natural SWW for most of his career, which I think was the original point. This really is a silly argument all around. He won’t ever be a natural 168 or 175, even if he fights for titles there. GGG walks around closer to 170-175, but no one would consider him a natural SMW, even if he fought there(which he fought over 160 last time out). He’s considered an above average sized MW. Canelo is now an average sized MW, not big for the weight, which clues you in to where he’s come from originally, which was up from 147 early, to 154 during the beginning of his “prime” when he started winning world titles.

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

I talk about catchweight not weight in the ring canelo has too many catchweight so he is a natural midle not a natural SW for me GGG is a not a natural midleweight he is a midleweight but not a natural midleweight I'am just objective very few boxers fights in their natural weight classes and it's highly regrettable too munch catchweights and cutting

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

We've been through this, the Khan fight was a none title fight, Canelo proved that pound wasn't crucial against Smith, you are making something out of nothing with the catchweights, you could more easily argue that if he is a natural 160 why bother getting down to 155, why not drag Cotto and Khan to 160?

What? Yes he is a natural middleweight, most boxers may be out of their natural weight class most of the time, but Golovkin is a fighter who is the minority, hasn't been out of his natural weight class until recently. The reason why fighters are out of their natural weigut class most of their careers is because usually a fighter can build a weight class below their natural weight class, and a couple of weight classes above, that's 4, and a fighter only has one natural weight class,

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

about GGG you're right, about canelo I'm still thiking you're wrong

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

This isn't an interesting debate where we are both making good points, this is repetitive, I've stated the facts, but you're not having it, most people are too stubborn.

Re: Let's just call it how it is: Canelo is only fighting...

I one last question how do you explain the fact that canelo is munch better at 160 than at 154 if he is a natural SW??

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