I'm tired of joshua

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I'm tired of joshua

in my opinion joshua is realy boring am I the only one?

Re: I'm tired of joshua

I wouldn't say "boring", as most of his fights have action and he is a skilled operator. If you mean boring, as in personality wise compared to some other HW's(Wilder, Fury, Miller, Whyte, etc), then yes, I understand that. I don't agree entirely, but I've pointed out before, that due to those other guys being big on social media, very personable with reporters, willing to do a lot of interviews, and being very outspoken(sometimes to a fault), they get a lot more publicity. I know here in the states, at least where I'm at, Joshua is 3-4 best known HW right now, at least in terms of people who've seen him fights, compared to those who simply know who he is. Wilder is a highlight reel, Fury is a mouth who's story has got a lot of run. Miller is a show in many ways. And Whyte has talked so much shit, people have paid attention. AJ is dry by those standards, and keeps himself out of the muck. That probably helps his career in terms of staying focused and protecting his reputation and marketability as a promotional athlete, but it certainly brings his world profile down by putting his face and voice out there less, letting Eddie effectively speak for him.

Re: I'm tired of joshua

That's a very fair assessment. Joshua is stuck between a rock and a hard place, he can't be humble and cause the entertainment outside of the ring that Fury does.

Re: I'm tired of joshua

I hope so, but no you're not. What do you want from Joshua? Fight Wilder or Fury? That will happen eventually, fights get built up. I don't understand how Joshua is boring, he does his job, he does it very well, has asked the fans who they want to see him fight, is a good role model, has done a lot for boxing.

Re: I'm tired of joshua

he is boring outside the ring and inside he does his job realy well but he doesn't have any specificity he fights like "robotcop" he is very munch beatable look his fight against parker

Re: I'm tired of joshua

Why? Because he doesn't talk trash ans tries to be humble? He is a boxer, not a comedian. Did you see his fight against Klitschko? Best heavywight fight of this century in my opinion, he is a good fighter, sometimes fighters have to be 'boring' at a level where they have to do everuthing right and not make mistakes. Parker is good, he beat Parker, unified, that's the bottom line, he won wide, boxed very well in that fight, and all fighters look beatable at times, not a reason not to like a fighter in my book. I am a Joshua fan, you don't have to like him, you are entitled to your opinion, just saying why I strongly disagree.

Re: I'm tired of joshua

I find he is not natural he has a lot more ego that what he shows at this level all fighters have big ego and he could be more ambitious about the choice. It's time now he must decide if his biguest will is to make history of boxing or to have his face on cereal packet

Re: I'm tired of joshua

Well stated.

Re: I'm tired of joshua

thanks

Re: I'm tired of joshua

I can see saying he is beatable(I personally believe that Fury and Wilder both can beat him), but his technical skills, and ability to weather trouble, so far, have won him the day. He can be very robotic, but combines it with good skills in terms of punch variety, decent hand speed and footwork, and good power. He could move his head a bit more, part of the problem with the "body builder" body type, but if he had NO special skills and was very beatable, he loses to both Wlad and Povetkin, both elite operators at both amateur and pro competition. And I'm no AJ/Matchroom fanboy defending him, lol. I'm Bomb Squad all day, but just like when people dumb down Wilder to simply a windmill, power, and a prayer and I call BS on it, I have to do the same in this instance.

Re: I'm tired of joshua

I'm no Matchroom fanboy either, I just think they get a lot of unfair crap. In my opinion, it should all stop, all the Joshua bashing, all the Wilder bashing, they are unbeaten world champions at the end of the day, they both deserve credit. If Joshua and Wilder fought, I would not mind who won, I am a fan of both. People who complain about Wilder's lack of technical skill are forgetting the old school fundamentals that if you can knock the other guy out, you don't need to be a technical master in the ring. Work rate, stamina, power, all attributes just like technical skill.

Re: I'm tired of joshua

100% agree, he has no appeal outside of the ring. He is the true successor to Wlad in that regard, very vanilla, boring, and safe.

Re: I'm tired of joshua

Saw this coming. People should remember that fans don't call the shots, we
pay to watch boxing because we like it, doing what you have to, to win, good boxing skill, be smart before you're brave.

Re: I'm tired of joshua

Yeah because that worked out so well for Rigondeaux when he beat Donaire. Fought smart, boxed well, and was rewarded by being ducked heavily. If Rigondeaux was a massive draw he wouldn't have been ducked. Fans make big fights possible and being a draw makes a fighters career far easier.

Re: I'm tired of joshua

That's not a criticism of a fighter though, that's just stating an issue as to how fighters can be matched when they have a certaib style. I know, but Joshua, at least for now, has 3 belts, everyone wants a payday against Joshua, he doesn't have the same issues as Rigondeaux, and how you can even comapre the two is beyond me. I know, and Joshua is the biggest draw in the UK, the Klitschko win will do down in history, but he will get more fights like that, don't worry about that, there is every reason for Joshua vs Fury/Wilder to happen eventually.

Re: I'm tired of joshua

The point is that someone like Rigodeaux shows it isn't enough for them to do their jobs, they have to be able to be a draw as well to get fights. Fans dictate far more than you give them credit for. Despite that, Joshua has all the fan support in the world and can easily make a PPV versus Wilder or Fury happen and is still fighting a 300 lbs man on DAZN. Compare that to Canelo who is fighting Jacobs on DAZN. Everyone wants a payday versus Joshua? You think Fury cares about how much he is getting paid? He would fight Joshua in a parking lot. Wilder and Fury can make their own money, they don't need Joshua. It is Hearn and Joshua that care so dearly about making as much money as possible by lowballing opponents and trying to stretch out as many fights as possible before taking the risky fights versus Wilder and Fury.

Re: I'm tired of joshua

I agree

Re: I'm tired of joshua

I know fans have control, because they pay, did not say they didn't, I'm saying Joshua is a draw, I'm saying he doesn't lack output like Rigondeaux, is an entertainment fighter, has made a lot of money, which is key here.

When? Now?, they can only fight twice a year pal, Hearn tried to make the Wilder fight, Wilder has his mind set on the Fury rematch because he knows Hearn will have to pay him more if he beats Fury. The fight has been close before, it will happen sooner or later, just like despite 'Canelo ducking GGG', that happened, same with 'Floyd is ducking Manny'.

Come on! You alright man? No, Fury darn well does care how much he gets paid, Fury is very intelligent, but I would not trust him as far as I could spit. No, they want to fight Joshua because Joshua is a bigger draw than either of them, because Joshua has 3 belts.

You talk like you don't know what the A-side/B-side is, not saying you don't understand it, but you are disregarding it to make the argument one sided.

Re: I'm tired of joshua

"People should remember that fans don't call the shots, we
pay to watch boxing because we like it, doing what you have to, to win, good boxing skill, be smart before you're brave." Now you say that you know fans have control and entertainment matters. Directly contradicting what you said before.

Says who? Fighters can fight 3-4 times a year if they'd like. Hearn did not try to make the Wilder fight, he offered a flat fee before the Fury fight, waste of time. The WBC mandated Wilder vs. Fury II, Wilder had to take the rematch. Hearn "offered" to trick people so he can justify making a fight no one wants like Joshua vs. Wilder. You criticized Canelo for waiting Golovkin out, where is the criticism for Joshua?

Fury comes from a culture that doesn't prioritize material goods, if I were to believe anyone saying they don't care about purse splits, it's him. Is it unreasonable to want to see the best fight the best? Wilder and Fury both wanted the fight but Hearn lowballs everyone and makes sure the fight can't happen.

A side does not mean absolutely unreasonable purse splits. Exact same thing Golden Boy and Canelo did with Golovkin, acting like they are acting in good faith and trying to make the fight happen when they are more than happy to wait it out.

Re: I'm tired of joshua

I think gold has right
Gold is always a sure value

Re: I'm tired of joshua

No I am not contradicting myself, I'm saying the fans don't call the shots, that's why they can't give fighters ultimatums, they have control over how much money fighters make, but they don't have direct control on the inside, this is a dangerous sport. I understand that fans pay, there money is obviously impactful, but what I am saying is, the fans should be realistic, take the sport for what it is, and fighters take a lot more risks, go through a lot more than some fans realise, the fans don't call the shots, obviously, but they have an impact, no contradiction, don't know whether you are trying to start stuff, or you misunderstood, I'm acknowledge the fans' improtance, without getting carried away as to how many decisions they can make.

Just speculatation that there was trickery. None, I do criticise Hearn of that is what he is doing, but I also know how to find tha balance between criticism and realism.

I have heard that before, I don't buy it, Fury is a normal person, likes money just like everybody else.

Unreasonable? Your opinion, to them, it isn't because Joshua earns his normal rate and 30% is a pay rise for the B-side.

Re: I'm tired of joshua

I'm not going to have a semantics argument over what "call the shots" means.

How would Wilder take the Joshua fight if he is mandated to fight Fury again? That is a ridiculous offer by Hearn he knows won't get accepted.

He consistently references his Irish Traveller background and the importance of it to him. He is not a media trained personality like Joshua, no need to doubt his authenticity.

30% is unreasonable for Wilder, if it is a pay raise or not is irrelevant when it isn't what they are worth. Stop trying to make it seem more vague than it actually is, this is the same thing Golden Boy and Canelo did. Matchroom had no want to actually make the Joshua vs. Wilder fight. It will happen eventually but they have not made an honest effort so far.

Re: I'm tired of joshua

I think you're right about this
gold is always a sure value

Re: I'm tired of joshua

Good, so don't try to wind me up and antagonise me by twisting my words, you misunderstood, I explained what I meant, I can say it again if it isn't good enough for you, a fan can't manage a fighters career and advise them purely based on their own entertainment, therefore, they do not call the shots, however the fans are the ones who pay, so of course, a hugh number of fans all put together can make a difference by paying to watch fights, that is what I meant, no contradiction.

It is not the first time the fight has been in talks, if they believed they could get Wilder, they would be pushing harder.

BS, Fury contradicts himself every day, I think Joshua is honest, and Fury isn't. One minute 'I don't want to be celebrity, means nothing to me', next minute, it is all about reputation, asks people on the streets in the US, if they know who Wilder is. Apparently everybody in boxing is on steriods, gays are as bad paedophiles, women are good for nothing, he would hang his own sister if she was promiscuous, and Joshua always tries to humble, conducts himself well, and he is the bad guy. Fury took 2-3 years out, motivation comes and goes dicipline sticks.

It isn't though is it?, because how can you objectively say they are worth more when they are getting far more than they have earned before?. No, you are trying to make it more clearcut than it actually is, you make assumptions. Yes, you dint see me taking digs at them for that the way you do about Hearn and Joshua, sure I criticise them, but I don't trash Golden Boy and all their fighters like you do to Matchroom. I believe they did, I see no more valid reason to think they didn't than vice verse.

Re: I'm tired of joshua

I didn't misunderstand what you said, you clearly said fans don't call the shots, contradicted it and made some lengthy explanation to weasel your way out of it. I'm not going to respond to that.

When the fight was being negotiated before Matchroom was acting in bad faith by starting the negotiations with flat fees.

Fury is diagnosed with bipolar disorder, it is not a surprise he is manic and depressive. He is honest in that he says what is on his mind if it is right or wrong, he isn't a media entity trying to say everything is right. When Joshua showed his true self sending racist messages to Eddie Chambers, that was covered up. Fury didn't get that benefit, the media relentlessly attacked him.

That is illogical, you are saying that a fighter is only worth as much as they have earned previously. That has nothing to do with what they are worth versus another draw. Neither Fury or Wilder made as much as they had made versus each other but they were both worth that much. I am being honest about the information we have, knowing the flat fee negotiations, how Wilder couldn't take a fight with Joshua when he is mandated to rematch Fury, etc. I don't trash Matchroom's fighters for being Matchroom fighters. Offering flat fees in a PPV fight is simply not honest negotiation, all PPV's have percentage based splits.

Re: I'm tired of joshua

Don't call me a weasel weasel mate, I don't want to go down this road again, let's remember why we buried the hatchet. I did not weasel my way out of anything, you won't respond because you are disappointed you can't use it against me, I explained what I meant, if you think you saw a contradiction, you misunderstood, stop being confrontational with me just because I don't hate Joshua like you do. I said fans don't call the shots, explained exactly what I meant, very clearly, if you don't understand, you are not as clever as you think you are.

No, they were offering more money than Wilder had ever earned before, and at the end of the day, 'offered them flat fees'

Guess what, I'm diagnosed with OCD, I have inflicted so much damage on myself with self harm to the head, I am very similar to Tyson Fury, there is no excuse for his behaviour, he is not a bad person, he is also very unreliable. If you want to play the mental health card, that is rich, because before, and today, you have caused me to escalate my own self harm, head hits are very serious, I could give myself brain damage, OCD is a deadly mental illness, pride attacks and intrusive thoughts are killers, don't think I don't know about mental health issues, and when I say, I don't want to discuss this, you have to keep antagonising me, just pushing me, you think it is hilarious that you can rile someone so much over the Internet, so don't act like you have any under standing or desire to care about mental health sufferers.

Just making stuff up, accusing me of contradicting myself and calling my explanation, weaseling out, even that, you don't know how much stress you've caused me today and in the past. This is all over an opinion I have, the fact that I am a fan of a fighter, respect his promoter, and it has escalated to this, is ridiculous. I thought we were last those days, don't take digs at me, don't accuse me of contradicting myself when I didn't, just unnecessary, I'm could accuse you of weaseling your way out, you make your fair of excuses/explanations, but I am not insulting or trying to make you angry, so why are yiu still trying to anger me? Because you know you can and I can't get to you?, pal, I would not physically hurt you if were in the same room, I have stopped making threats and talking about violence, that was wrong of me.

I started discussing with you again because of what SalTnutZ1 said, let's not take a step backwards, I have had enough of the aggro, I will not change my opinion on Joshua, Hearn overall, agree with a couple of points you made (can't blame Wilder for thinking he is being lowballed, if people lose out financiallly, it isn't on, Brook wasn't well matcned), you do not have to like Joshua or Hearn, but don't try to wind me up.

Re: I'm tired of joshua

Then why push the discussion? I said in the first place I didn't want to talk about Joshua again.

Re: I'm tired of joshua

I don't know. We are both to blame with the back and fourth pointless discussions, but you have crossed the line a couple of times, there was no need to take a dig about predictions I have gotten wrong, and to accuse me of contradicting myself, not accepting my explanation, was out of line. I'm not going to do that to you, but I could, so either acknowledge that was wrong, or I'll have another shot at explains what I meant, because I did not contradict myself.

I am still not well, talking to you is my choice, I don't hate you, I respect you as someone who knows boxing and probably other stuff as well, but sometimes, it seems like you want to make me as angry as you can.

For what it is worth, I agree, Hearn should give opponents who are either champions or have worked their way up, more money, the April 13 slot shouldn't have been on BoxRec, Miller should not be Joshua's next opponent because even if he is as good as I think, his lac of valuable experience will hurt him, but overall, I am a fan of Joshua, and I think Hearn os a very good promoter.

Re: I'm tired of joshua

Ok, at this point I am ready to bury this conversation. No need to continue.

Re: I'm tired of joshua

'I didn't misunderstand what you said, you clearly said fans don't call the shots, contradicted it and made some lengthy explanation to weasel your way out of it. I'm not going to respond to that'.

I want to acknowledge that that was wrong, because I did not contradict, myself, and you twisted my words.

Re: I'm tired of joshua

If I felt I was wrong I would acknowledge it, I have no problem doing so.

Re: I'm tired of joshua

Well, you were wrong, I'm telling you that, man to man, and you have no right to call me a weasel because I explained what I meant, there was no contradiction, I understand that the fans play a part in boxing, whilst obviously, they don't choose a fighters' next fight, they don't have the means or the authority to call the shots in a sport like this, and fans should appreciate the great fights they do see rather than complain about the fights they don't see, they should appreciate that sometimes, boxers are told to be safety first, should remember that skills pay bills, boxing is hit, and do not get hit, having said that, as I said, the fans are payers, even employers in a sense, they, together, build a fighter's income by paying to watch them fight, and encouraging more fans to pay to watch you fight, makes you more money, builds you legacy, builds your reputation, but also, one fan can't call the shots in boxing in any shape or form, several thousand fans can make a significant difference, obviously, but one promoter, one trainer, has a lot of control, and it is that way, for a reason, because they are doing what is best for their fighter, whereas the fans want to see great fights, want to see a lot of risk taking.

Joshua is somewhat like Klitschko, 'Vanilla, safe, boring', 'intelligent, wise, professional', two very different ways of looking at the same situation, Klitschko will never have the reputation of Ali, Tyson, but he dominated the heavyweights division for 11 years, stale era or not, 'boring fights', or not, ugly style, or not, you have to respect him for that, and acknowledge him as a great fighter, and the same will have to be said for Joshua if he continues to do what he is doing by defending his belts. In boxing, the best should fight the best, it would be a shame if Joshua vs Wilder/Fury didn't happen, but I am 99% sure it will happen.

Re: I'm tired of joshua

If anyone is a weasel, it is you, you are the one who dodges direct questions, you had some nerve to call me a weasel when last week you stopped a discussion not because it was getting out of hand, but because you had no answer, you never want to acknowledged when someone makes a point that doesn't suit what you are saying. I didn't want us to go down this road again, you chose to push me, I hope this can go no further, but don't provoke and disrespect me, because like anyone else, I will defend myself, I am well enough now not to lose control and talk about physically hurting you, but if you make false accusations like that, and call me a weasel, which I take as a personal insult, just like digs about predictions I have got wrong, I will stand up for myself, I don't suffer fools.

Re: I'm tired of joshua

I don't know if joshua will ever face fury

Re: I'm tired of joshua

Mark my words, if Fury beats Wilder, he will.

Re: I'm tired of joshua

joshua vs fury who would you pick?

Re: I'm tired of joshua

That's a very, very tough question, Joshua is the better professional, the more consistent fighter who has done everything right, hits harder, but Fury has that exceptional level of boxing skill, although both have decent chins and can come back from almost being stopped, Fury's speed of recovery is something else, Fury is more talented, he's better really, bit he has not made the most of his talent. Very tough fight to call, I really don't know, you?

Re: I'm tired of joshua

I don't think that Joshua will be able to land consistantly on fury so I pick fury fury is number one in my opinion