GGG v. Alvarez II- Who You Got and Why?

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GGG v. Alvarez II- Who You Got and Why?

Just looking to see what people think of that fight, assuming it still happens. Who do you think will win and why?

Re: GGG v. Alvarez II- Who You Got and Why?

Alvarez, UD, at least 7-5, probably wider.
Age is the reason, boxing is very much about timing.
The first fight was toll taking, punch resistance was important for both (probably two of the best chins in boxing), even without considering the wear and tear of the first fight, a 36 year old fighter is declining, a 27 year old fighter shouldn't be, and I think simply because of the age factor, Golovkin can't be quite as good as he was in the first fight, but Canelo certainly can, if anything, he'll probably be slightly better.

Re: GGG v. Alvarez II- Who You Got and Why?

Alvarez by UD, or possibly late TKO.

Alvarez, younger & fresher, is also faster, more talented, more fundamentally sound & is in the prime of his career while GGG is not.

It's probably been a while since any fighter, world class or otherwise, had all those advantages & still failed to win a rematch, title fight or otherwise.

Re: GGG v. Alvarez II- Who You Got and Why?

Imagine the uproar if the two draws again...

Unless GGG aged overnight/Canelo made tremendous improvements/questionable judging I am not convinced Canelo can beat GGG.

I am not pleased with Canelo's performance in the first fight, and I am certainly not pleased with the recent news of him and banned substances.

Re: GGG v. Alvarez II- Who You Got and Why?

Canelo should be banned for life in my opinion.

Re: GGG v. Alvarez II- Who You Got and Why?

Money talks. The powers that be of boxing are too cynical to take a stand for the sport's (and business') integrity.

With that being said, given the extremely high-profile case of Canelo the commission might actually do something this time and stops Canelo from fighting (temporarily) instead of rubber-stamping Canelo's license to fight.

Boxers proven to be on banned substances need to be dealt with harshly for the long term interests of the sport and the business, but I am afraid the people in control are too short-sighted and would choose to reap short-term profits while compromising the future of boxing.

Quite funny how GGG was avoided in the past, but now so many are eager to fill in as Canelo's potential replacement.

Re: GGG v. Alvarez II- Who You Got and Why?

In all walks of life, money = power.

Well the suspension is good to see, but he should be properly punished.

Yep, it is the common modern issue, society has it's priorities wrong, money comes before what is right, it is BS, but it is the way it is.

Well what's funny is that (and I'm not necessarily saying GGG was never avoided) that is the stupid conclusion people jump to, a fight isn't happening, someone is scared, well there are a few more likely reasons for fights not happening, and what you just said, backs it up. On the other hand, Golovkin, now, is 36, he isn't a young fighter, he is declining faster than his reputation is, the reasons to avoid him are weakening.

I would love to see Golovkin vs Andrade or Derevyanchenko instead, Jacobs isn't and option, neither is Charlo, with their fights against Sulecki and Centeno coming up, I don't think Saunders is really, because I don't see him canceling the Murray fight, I think if he wasn't fighting Murray, GGGs team would probably make a good offer for a Saunders fight, for the simole reason that he has the WBO belt.

Re: GGG v. Alvarez II- Who You Got and Why?

Accidental double-post.

Re: GGG v. Alvarez II- Who You Got and Why?

Normally I would say the better boxer has the advantage in the rematch as he can make the adjustments that the other can't. However, I do not think Canelo is a considerably better boxer than Golovkin and I was not convinced Canelo could actually improve his biggest issue, his cardio, in just one fight. If the doping issues with Canelo didn't come out, I would predict Golovkin to win, but I am not really sure now. I have seen conflicting accounts on the effects of stamina with Clenbuterol, but isn't it a convenient excuse for any Mexican fighter to be able to blame the meat industry every single time? I'm not someone who gets really angry about steroid usage. AJ is incredibly obvious but no one gives a damn about him, fans just have a selective bias. If someone pops then obviously they deserve to get punished, Whyte was suspended for 2 years by UKAD when he was proven to have not knowingly taken MHA. Canelo popped, so if the corrupt Nevada State Athletic Commission does their job, Canelo should be given a significant suspension at his hearing.

I still think there is a good chance the fight will happen, the Nevada Commission is corrupt and Golden Boy is a smoking gun for corruption. If Canelo is rightfully suspended and the fight is canceled, it will be bad for boxing, but more specifically for Canelo. He will always be labeled as a doper from then on and I believe Golovkin will be looked at as the true winner of the first fight even more than before. I think there will be fighters lining up to fight Golovkin because it is a big opportunity, he is not as big of a name as Canelo but he is a relatively big draw. I think Saunders is the legit option, he is in camp and the Murray fight can be canceled. Not to be rude, but no one really gives a damn about seeing Martin Murray fight Saunders in comparison to seeing Saunders fight Golovkin. Saunders has made it clear he wants to fight the Canelo vs. Golovkin winner. Golovkin will pay a hell of a lot more than Murray and Saunders would certainly be swayed by the opportunity.

Re: GGG v. Alvarez II- Who You Got and Why?

I see that, but firstly, it isn't a case of boxer vs fighter, not as such, but more about age, which is a biological situation, rather than being about boxing departments, second, I do not think cardio is a real issue for Canelo, I don't, he was going to struggle for pace against Golovkin, with the weight circumstance, and he was fit enough to rally late like that and probably get the better of the last quarter of the fight, against a still strong GGG.

I take issue with that comment, I do not think AJ is on steriods, I have every confidence that he is not a skumbag, and is a clean athlete, I don't see unnatural physical attributes from him in the ring. Whyte got what he deserved. Course he should!, it is just a question of whether or not he will. Will the Golovkin/Canelo rematch be called off?, I'm not convinced.

I don't think that will be bad for boxing, bad for Canelo?, yes!, but bad for boxing?, say Golovkin fights an Andrade/Derevyanchenko level opponent, is that bad for boxing?, no it isn't, and it is also good for tne variety of the sport, some people aren't big on rematches, and I see that, I mean, is a rematch ever that necessary when there are so many other options?, and more specific to this situation, is Canelo being rightfully punished for cheating bad for boxing?, or does that help the sense of justice in this dangerous sport?

Of course, and his reputation, and the significance, magnitude of the opportunity of fighting him, these two things are is declining more slowly than he is as a fighter, this is timing, and Golovkin is dipping. That's not going to happen, maybe if the fight had been called off and sent into question after Saunders' hand injury, then maybe, but it was confirmed for late June more or less immediately after mid April wasn't going to happen anymore, the fight is worthwhile enough that it has been built up a lot on Boxnation, they were willing to fight for it, reschedule it, so they won't just cast it aside for another fight, even if it is a Golovkin fight. Doesn't matter, it has gone past that stage, and let's not forget, world title or not, it is two well known British fighters, ticket selling hasn't been an issue, to say nobody gives a damn about it is out of line and way off the mark, and to say suggest it could be called iff and replaced, is unrealistic. The best option is probably Andrade. Saunders is a good option for later in the year, he does have the WBO title afterall, by all means, GGG vs Saunders can happen, but not in May!

Re: GGG v. Alvarez II- Who You Got and Why?

Yeah, Golovkin is older and surely declining, but by how much and how much does that actually matter? Obviously, not every boxer ages the same, and Golovkin doesn't have a style that tends to age really quickly. Rather, it's the wars he has been in recently that concern me the most, but he hasn't shown any issues with punch resistance. Saying he is in serious decline is just speculation at this point. People said Bernard Hopkins was getting old out of speculation when he faced Trinidad and he still had over a decade left at the highest level in the sport. I don't think Canelo would look any better versus Jacobs than Golovkin did for example. If cardio wasn't the issue that caused him to look winded and lose many consecutive rounds in the middle part of the fight, then what was? I agree, when he got a second wind, he looked more effective which points towards the cardio issues.

AJ is certainly on steroids. He gained 24 lbs of lean muscle in 4 years when he already was an elite athletic specimen. To be 254 lbs at 6'6 with as low body fat as he has is simply impossible without steroids. He certainly has a very sophisticated doping program given how big of a draw he is, but there is a reason he is not on VADA 365.

It is certainly bad for boxing if the #1 PPV draw gets a suspension and cancels the biggest fight of the year. If Golovkin faces anyone other than Canelo, it will be comparatively worse for boxing. Seeing Golovkin face Andrade or Derevyanchenko is interesting in that it provides variety, but not in that it provides proven top-level opponents, which facing Canelo would do. The rematch is certainly warranted in this fight if you want to talk about unwarranted rematches, there are fights like Linares vs. Crolla 2.

Remember, I said comparatively no one gives a damn about Saunders vs. Murray if it could be Golovkin vs. Saunders. I believe you have shown my point here, if he is given the opportunity to fight on Box Nation at the O2 or fight on HBO pay per view in Las Vegas, the choice is obvious. The whole hand injury rescheduling could possibly point towards Frank Warren and Saunders wanting to wait for the Canelo Golovkin controversy out to see if there is an opportunity for them. Warren will make the cancelation happen if the Canelo goes out, it is more money for the both of them and opportunity than fighting Murray who is a voluntary defense. Andrade would probably be his worst reasonable option honestly. Andrade is a relatively unknown to the public tricky southpaw boxer who's real ceiling isn't actually known because he consistently avoids and pulls out of big fights.

Re: GGG v. Alvarez II- Who You Got and Why?

It matters a lot, it is physically impossible not to be declining at his age, there is no substitute for youth. No they don't, granted, but all boxers age, but if you think Golovkin is still better than Alvarez, then I think a more legitimate argument is the fact that you and many others had him winning 8-4 the first time. I disagree, because his punch resistance has always been important, he is declining, his recovery time, stamina, speed (never been an attribute, well here's another angle, he's getting even slower), there is no substitute for youth, so to answer to that question, yes it does matter! It isn't speculation, it is science! Ok, but he was still declining. I could nitpick, explain why Hopkins's situation was different to Golovkin's situation, but I'm not going to just crap all over your attempt to make an example for your point, but I will say this, a fighter, 34, 35, 36, 37, over these years, does NOT improve. Not then, but he would now, and on a different but unrelated topic, we disagree stronly on this topic about seeing limitations based on past performances, and reading much into fighters looking particularly good against certain opponents, because I'm telling you now, some fighters look better than others against certain opponents (and this isn't about styles), but poorer when they step up. Now, I think for what it is worth, Canelo would do better against Jacobs, a year ago?, no, now?, yes, boxing is about timing, I keep saying, and I will continue to say, based in the years I've been following boxing. As I explained, he was carrying extra weight, and Golovkin makes you work!, what you have to understand as well, is that the pace is higher than it looks, feinting, dipping down the knees, burning up nervous energy, keeping shape, it all takes it out of you. There are fighters, under the same circumstances, who would have handled the pace better, there is truth in what you are saying, but like I think you do with most topics in boxing, you exaggerate a lot.

Don't buy it! Not for a second. I just do NOT buy it! You cannot confirm that, you have no evidence whatsoever! Is a lot if this the fact that if AJ was proven to be on steroids I would delete this account and follow a different sport instead?, maybe, but no I'm 99% sure Joshua is a clean athlete. Who else is on roids then in your book?, Crawford?, Spence?, Lomachenko?, Golovkin? Wilder? Thurman? Bivol? I'm going to be a loyall fan here and believe, optimistically, that all these guys are NOT on any substance, and neither is AJ.

I'm not an expert in this particular topic, that's something you know more about than I do, but I do not think it would be bad for boxing, I honestly don't, it would be bad for Golden Boy, but bad for the sport as a whole?, not at all in my opinion, a way of explaining why might be the negative vibe everyone gets from Canelo and the judges' repeated favouritism, now the drugs, I mean, people will pay a lot of money to see GGG fight an Andrade or a Charlo, so if Canelo is out, what damage does that do to the sport?, do you not think people would move in and watch other fighters?, and do you not think that right now, there are 10-0 prospects who soon enough will be the new "cash cow"?, I just don't see how the sport can depend on one fighter, then again, you did say it is bad for boxing, not that it will ruin it. Like I said, my level of knowledge on the business side of boxing is not as high as yours, but I think my opinion is still valid. That's a good point, Canelo, with his resume, is an established elite, I get that.

I don't agree, especially not seeing as you would expect Abel Sanchez to try to keep GGG away from a young fighter when he is getting older, they could fight a weaker opponent in Saunders (assuming Saunders is weaker than Canelo, which he probably is), get a title, Canelo and Golovkin both have other options, Charlo, Jacobs, Murata, more, I'm not saying a rematch was unnecessary, I'm just saying it wasn't the only good option. That's out of line in my opinion, I don't know whether that is you saying I give Crolla too much credit or whether that is picked at random, but you want to talk business and all that, well Hearn offered Linares big money to return to Manchester, Crolla fills arenas, he is very popular, the first fight was great, competitive, a rematch wasn't unnecessary at all. A much better example would be Kovalev vs Pascal II. To be clear, what I'm saying is, Linares vs Crolla II, Golovkin vs Canelo II, both good options, there is an argument that both were the right call, there is an argument that neither were necessary, what I'm getting at is that GGG vs Canelo was one of A LIST of options, just like Linares vs Crolla II, and more specific to this situation, GGG vs Canelo II is not the be all and end all, there are back ups.

Whatever, the point is, it is very unrealistic to say the fight will be cancelled because Warren and Saunders would rather face Golovkin, if it was currently in talks (Saunders vs Murray) then maybe, but the fight is confirmed, switching to another fight?, no, it just does NOT happen. I strongly disagree with that, I think you're overestimating the significance of all this to fighters who just want to get in the ring and fight, boxing is old school at the end of the day, Andrade is unbeaten, dominant, people would pay to see Golovkin vs Andrade, and it would be a great fight, to say it is his worst option, I mean, don't take this the wrong way, because you remind me of my best friend of 15 years who I have asked the same question, but are you arguing here a little bit just for the sake of arguing

Re: GGG v. Alvarez II- Who You Got and Why?

We agree Golovkin is declining as he is aging. I am just saying he appears to be declining more than he actually is because his level of opposition is much higher than it was in the past. Hopkins is a once in a lifetime athletic specimen of course, but I am just using him to make a point that different fighters have different timespans. Yes, I agree styles are very important and that's why Canelo would have a harder time with Jacobs than Golovkin would. I'm not sure what you mean by carrying extra weight, do you mean that Canelo was fighting at the actual Middleweight limit instead of Caneloweight 155 lbs? Yes, again we agree, Golovkin is a good ring cutter, he made Canelo work to keep him off, slip and move on the ropes and that's partially why Canelo had cardio problems versus Golovkin. I'm only talking about Canelo versus Golovkin, not Canelo versus Khan or whatever.

I'm 99% sure Joshua is not a clean athlete. Perhaps you should look into the history of doping and how sophisticated doping programs are always going to be ahead of the testers. If you ask anyone who is involved in weightlifting, it is extremely tedious to gain lean muscle mass once you get past novice gains. 24 lbs in 4 years is impossible for someone who already was a top athlete and on top of that he even got leaner than he was at the beginning of his career. Spence is another guy a lot of people suspect to be on steroids as well, but I wouldn't be as sure about him as Joshua. Guys with Olympic backgrounds are going to be especially suspicious.

The reason why it would be bad for the sport as a whole is that Canelo vs. GGG is a super hyped up fight that casuals will buy. When casuals hear on ESPN or whatever that Canelo tested positive and the fight is canceled, that makes them think negatively of boxing as a dirty sport when in reality boxing has significantly better testing than sports like basketball or football. Canelo represents a big draw because of the Mexican and Mexican-American markets which are huge PPV buyers regardless of the shady judging and such. Sure Golovkin surely did get some kind of "rub" from fighting Canelo which will make him a better draw than before. Boxing is in a good spot right now, I am not saying it depends on Canelo but losing a big Canelo fight because of juicing is certainly a big deal. You can see an example of how losing big stars can put a sport in a tough spot with the UFC. Now that McGregor is on the sidelines, Rousey quit, and Jones is suspended, they have struggled a lot. Boxing has a lot of good potential stars though and other established stars like Joshua which the UFC is a lot more limited in.

The reason why Canelo and Golovkin would fight again is that they are each other's biggest draws and seen as each other's biggest competitors. The winner (if the fight goes on) will fight Saunders anyways. In addition, Charlo has a network conflict being on Showtime, Jacobs is too dangerous to take unless they need to fight him, and Murata is not a draw at all. For making money, the rematch was the only good option. I hate talking about draws, it makes me seem like Brendan Schaub, but I think the rematch was definitely the right choice. I just picked Linares vs. Crolla because it was not a good rematch from a competitive standpoint like Kovalev vs. Pascal II. Yeah, the only reason he fought Crolla again was because it was the biggest money fight for him. It was a good fight, but Linares comfortably beat Crolla and he blew Crolla out in the second fight which showed how worthless it was.

It's possible they could arrange to fight Murray on a different date as well instead of cancelling it outright. A lot of the fighters will fight anyone, but at the end of the day the managers will convince them to take the best strategic fights. We have seen this plenty of times. Andrade just doesn't make the risk meet the reward. No one knows who this guy is outside of hardcore boxing fans, he is not even a regional draw. It is his worst realistic option out of the guys who could actually fight him, guys like Saunders who has a belt and an established fighter, Derevyanchenko who is a mandatory, and Charlo who is the #1 WBC challenger and an established fighter.

Re: GGG v. Alvarez II- Who You Got and Why?

Any idiot knows Jacobs and Canelo are a level above Lemieux, Stevens, I'm saying Golovkin is declining because he is 36. Yes, some fighters decline more gradually than others, some fighters know how to work around decline (to a degree), others try to be the fighters they once were, and it goes wrong, but at 34, 35, 36, 37, every fighter is declining, slowly or quickly, they are dipping, it is biologically inevitable. If I said that, it isn't what I meant, I don't think it is about styles, I think Canelo would do better against Jacobs than Golovkin, now, but not a year ago, because of the timing. It's obvious what I mean, he's competing at a higher weight than he ever has, you said it, never been above 155 apart from the Chavez fight, that's why he struggled for pace in the middle rounds in that fight, because he was carrying extra weight, and even taking his own weight out of the equation, looking at the Golovkin fight, he was fighting a bigger guy than he is used to fighting, the pressure of a Golovkin, making you work, all the time, even without the weight disadvantage, you can't expect the pace not to be an issue. Caneloweight?, come on, you are not that immature. So am I, the only reason that necessarily has to be relevant, is the comparison of fighting Khan, Smith, and fighting a full on career Middleweight, and Golovkin at that.

Well here's a thought, you take steroids as a tennager, you are probably always going to carry residual muscle from it, but that does not mean he's touched a steroid in his professional or late amateur boxing career! Don't forget he's 6'6, his muscles are naturally bigger. Joshua was a lot lighter for Parker, so I don't think you can say he was on roids for that fight. Well it's good that you only mentioned one guy from that list. Yiu want to talk about SPECULATION, age decline isn't speculative, I'll tell you what is, fighters who have never failed a test, being on drugs, you say you're 99% he's in drugs, how about having some trust, and some faith in an athlete with integrity, I mean, come on. Well I'm 99.99% sure AJ isn't on any kind of steroid shit. Let me tell you, if Joshua was on something, Bellew (who did not 'get lucky' against Haye, he proved everybody wrong) would NOT be his friend!!, he would verbally trash him!

Yeah, they must be desperate, that clown McGregor, "fook Mayweathers" what a shithouse, anyway, that's all they have, there isna reason why they just offered AJ £500,000,000.

Ok, I'm going to make this black and white, to call Linares vs Crolla II worthless is BS! The first fight was extremely competitive, many gave Crolla 5 rounds, he was the champion, why not have a rematch?? Competitive standpoint?, what??, Kovalev vs Pascal I was nowhere near as competitive as Linares vs Crolla!!!!!!

Again, as a human being who has been following boxing for 7 years, and has always been very knowledgeable about current boxing, Saunders vs Murray will not get cancelled or postponed because a Golovkin fight looks good! Ok, well he would have a name if he fought Golovkin, and his reputation would skyrocket even with people having more reason to watch his past fights. Andrade is an established fighter! it is bad for the sport to shut these guys out of hard fights!

Re: GGG v. Alvarez II- Who You Got and Why?

Do you really think that Canelo is significantly improving and/or Jacobs is getting significantly worse? They both seem to be relatively set where they are as established fighters. Canelo can come in at whatever weight he wants. If he wants to come in at 155 lbs or so for improved cardio and risk having less durability and power he can. Wouldn't be the first guy to do it. Guys like Canelo and Cotto who fight for the Middleweight title at 155 lbs should have it used against them. It is ridiculous to have a lower catchweight for titles like that.

He has only gained mass as a professional, he had a realistic natural body type before. Just because he came in lighter doesn't mean he got off steroids, it's certainly good that he did get lighter though. I'm sure people suspect the other fighters from that list as well. I'm not sure why you care so much about Bellew, he would get destroyed at Cruiserweight if he uses his WBC champion emeritus status that he was somehow given with only one title defense. Bellew is just a sideshow attraction at Heavyweight versus guys like Haye. No way he ever gets into the ring versus even guys of Whyte's level, he is just way too small. If you think Charles Martin got lucky with a freak injury, well that's what happened to Haye as well with his Achilles. Bellew is just riding the AJ train like many others.

I never liked the notion of having to beat a guy twice to win a title, Crolla won 4-5 rounds sure, but no one actually thought he won the fight and he wasn't a long-reigning champion. Pascal did better than anyone else versus Kovalev to that point and no one else worthwhile was going to fight Kovalev.

At this point, it looks like Saunders won't be an opponent for Golovkin, but it isn't because of the Murray fight. Andrade shuts himself out of hard fights. He isn't Rigondeaux pre-Lomachenko.

Re: GGG v. Alvarez II- Who You Got and Why?

Yes and no, Jacobs has still got it, but he might be starting to slip slightly, but no Canelo is improving, agaimst Chavez Jr, Golovkin, he looked better than ever, but my point here, was that now, he would do better than Golovkin against Jacobs, but not a year ago. Just think about what you're saying, I mean, why do you think there are 19 weight categories? I disagree, Canelo has earned the right to have some leeway beyond 154, but not to fight guys at 160 yet, and let's remember this, 155 was the weight for both guys, he makes the weight, that's fine, you have to understand what these guys go through to make weight.

Because I'm a fan of his, he's good for boxing, why do you have so much respect for any fighter?? This is what is wrong with boxing!! Excuses! Listen lad, what right do you have to say that?, at Cruiserweight, has Bellew ever lost?, did he become a world champion?, did he defend his title? Ilunga Makabu is a very good fighter, very dangerous, no crapppy IBF mandatory. What are you on about?, guys at Whyte's level?? Is that a personal dig at him because of the trash talk from Whyte?
If you are comparing Martin's win to Bellew upsetting the odds, beating Haye, then you are being stupid, come on!
For what it is worth, it isn't that Martin "got lucky", it is gnat he showed us nothing that night, and Glazkov was very, very unfortunate, Haye was, but Haye was tiring, desperate, he hurt his leg, but he wasn't going to win that fight anyway! He was frustrated! Haye was going to blow a gasket beyond 6, you guys talk BS and give Bellew no credit! You all say "Mismatch, Haye stops him in 2", well after 5, I had it 3-2, Haye was tiring, watch it, notice, after 5 rounds, notice Bellew tells Haye something like "this is my territory, you're blowing a gasket". The BS from you lot on this topic is unbelievable!
You're another one of these people who gets annoyed at people getting carried away, overhyping AJ, and you take it out on him, riding the AJ train?, but anyway, Bellew would not be on that train if Aj was on something!, and neither would a lot of people, and don't insult Rob McKracken either, AJ is clean, let's not accuse him because you think you are in a position to investigate or make good judgement, you don't know how much muscle you can gain without setroids.

So, mr Business matters most, it was a great fight!! Everybody loved it, long reigning champion? No, but it was a great fight!, 4-5 rounds is enough not to lose a landslide, and enough for a rematch not to be worthless!, that was just fucked up from you man, Crolla deserved that rematch!, and he isn't undeserving of another world title shot, having beaten Burns, Ramirez, especially if he gets another good win this year. Doesn't matter, still got stopped and was well behind, and maybe consider that there was nobody better to fight Linares than Crolla apart from any top fighters like Garcia who were preoccupied. You can not defend Kovalev vs Pascal II and then trash Linares vs Crolla II!, think about the comparison of the first fights.

Why say that? Why is that your assumption of a hard working, undefeated fighter?, I'm telling you, that's BS. Andrade deserves a big opportunity like a Golovkin fight for sure! Again, it is because the Murray fight is already confirmed, tickets sold, preparing for each other's styles, the fight does not get called off because another one is better!, that is unrealistic, and it doesn't happen.

Re: GGG v. Alvarez II- Who You Got and Why?

If Jacobs is slipping, we haven't seen it in the ring yet. I just disagree with the idea that Canelo has improved significantly other than his footwork. I don't think the Chavez fight is worth talking about at all, Chavez Jr was just in there for a check as we all know. Jacobs would be a really really hard fight for Canelo in my opinion. Jacobs is a big strong tall and long Middleweight who can box and punch. I don't have a problem with Canelo fighting at 155 lbs except for the fact he was holding the 160 lbs Middleweight title and fighting a pound above Super Welterweight.

The guys he fought at Cruiserweight are not even close to the level of Usyk, Gassiev, or even Breidis. Which if Bellew went back to Cruiserweight, he would almost surely use his mandatory emeritus status versus the winner of Usyk vs. Gassiev which would certainly end very badly for Bellew. Guys on Whyte's level meaning legitimate Heavyweight contenders, not blown up aged Cruiserweights like Haye. The main reason they are rematching other than that they are their biggest draws is that it was a fluke that Haye tore his Achilles. If he beats him legit next time then great for Bellew. Juicing is surely a lot more prevalent than you think, at the end of the day guys like McCracken get a check anyway and it doesn't affect their reputation. People aren't targeting the Reynoso's because of Canelo's positive test for example. If you don't believe me about juicing do some research yourself. For someone who is already in great athletic shape to gain 24 lbs of lean muscle mass in 4 years and end up even leaner than before is not natural.

We will just have to agree to disagree on this point. Crolla was not deserving of a rematch other than that it paid, he had only made one defense of his title and lost uncontroversially. He may get another title shot though, sure. He is a good enough title challenger even at this point in his career. Yeah exactly, Crolla was his best option, doesn't mean he really "deserved" it. Kovalev was thought of as unstoppable so Pascal putting up a good enough fight meant he was in consideration for a rematch. Like you said with Crolla and Linares, Pascal was his best option because Stevenson sure as hell wasn't going to fight Kovalev.

It is not an assumption, Andrade has pulled out of fights versus Jermell Charlo and Sergiy Derevyanchenko who would be the best fighters he had fought. He talks a lot of game about facing top guys but he hasn't done it thus far. You have to acknowledge the end goal for Saunders and Frank Warren is to get a big payday versus Canelo preferably or Golovkin, so if he thought it was the only opportunity he would get to face them than he would take it. Tickets have been sold and preparations have been made for plenty of fights in the past for them to get called off. I can't think of another circumstance that has happened that is like this one though.

Re: GGG v. Alvarez II- Who You Got and Why?

There is only so much time I'm prepared to invest going round in circles here, while I appreciate the time you put into these still quite interesting discussions, I do think this is a loop.

That is not true, Chavez Jr was training very, very hard, he was there to win, only, when it came to it, it was about levels, and he couldn't compete with his opponent because for 8 weeks, he had been training how he should have been training for years, which he wasn't a lot of the time in the past. Chavez was in the shape of his life!

Look, Saul Alvarez fought at a massive weight disadvantage, he fought a guy with phenomenal talent, height, reach, fighting ability, he went up 10 lbs, and he won every single round, that, is impressive! This is the thing as well, Canelo struggled for pace in rounds 6-8 I think, but that is to be expected under the circumstances, and he still won 12-0, 11-1 at the worst, agsinst a guy who was something like 51-2, had wins over Andy Lee, Peter Manfredo, a former world champion, not too old, at 31, and Alvarez have him a 12 round boxing lesson with a massive weight disadvantage.

You're what I call a glory hunter.
Listen, what on earth is your point?, I support fighters who achieve, exceed expectations time and time again, top level or not.
You think you're Einstein, well you guys all said would get messed up bad by Makabu, the Haye fight was a mismatch, you never admit when you have to stop talking BS, and guve people who deserve credit, credit.
I believe Bellew, at 200, would give Usyk, Gassiev problems, even at 35!, and at a younger age, he would have had a shot against anybody, I don't believe he would have ever beaten Usyk, Gassiev, but never, ever write off Tony Bellew!!
Look here, I'm going to break this down for you!
-you all said, "Mismatch, Bellew dies March 4, gets knocked out in 2", well, he put boxed Haye in the first round, did great for 2-3, took Haye's best punches flush in rounds 4 and 5, didn't budge, and after 5, Haye was blowing a gasket
-Everyone who knew about Haye and Bellew, said, if it goes past 6, Bellew is probably going to win, but the concern for him was the early rounds!!
-Haye put himself in a reckless position for a reason, you think he was just simply unfortunate?, he was unfortunate, obviously, but he was swinging recklessly, didn't realise his own physical vulnerabilities, and he ended up rupturing his achilles
-there is a very, very strong case to be made that Bellew would have won the fight without the injury, maybe he wouldn't have literally knocked Haye out of the ring (have you forgotten about that?), but he was going to win, it is Haye somehow winning under his own bad circumstances which you have to try to build a convincing case for!

You can NOT call Bellew's win a fluke, I've been raging about this for a very, very long time now!, he beat Haye, faid and square, was doing far, far better than any of you thought he would before the fight, he was not fading, Haye was!
I said Bellew would stop Haye, he did, you all said "Mismatch", Bellew began the fight by outboxing Haye, the fight was competitive, and then he beat him, facts, are you going to deny him credit because his opponent injured himself?, I do not have the mental energy to write down the ither half of my discussion, because I've wasted my time with this pointless discussion many, many times in the past.
Final point, Haye was unfortunate to injur himself, that is why there is a rematch, Bellew brome his hand as well, but still stopped Haye, he proved to be better than Haye, people like you are bitter, you know you got proven wrong, you can't accept it, just like with Povetkin vs Price but worse. Do not try to say that Bellew would have lost just because Haye injured himself in defeat, because that makes no sense, you can make a case that Haye was very, very unlucky, this is why we have the rematch! BTW, I think Bellew beats Whyte.

No no, you are trying to logical about why some fighters are on drugs, fine, but I'm saying, you have no evidence, you are spending too much time doing the wrong research, and developing petty hate for Lomachenkos and Joshuas, and I'm also saying, stop your little investigation which you are not qualified to make, and have some faith, have some trust in fighters!
I know some fighters are on drugs, Povetkin, Ortiz, I think Glenn Foot is, Tyson Fury will probably start cheating when he returns, and Canelo Alvarez is I think a cheater as well (I hate to say it), but don't make stupid accusations and get carried away, because you are in no position to be 99% sure AJ is a cheat, and I don't swallow that BS for a second!

This is getting very annoying now!
Right, If you think Kov vs Pas II was a better rematch than Lin vs Cro II, then you are talking out your backside!!, I don't like to see people talking this kind of BS about fighters I respect very much! I can't even believe I'm wasting my time with this BS!!

Was that last line you finally accepting you have exaggerated on something?
But no, this annoys me, Andrade, just like Bellew did, I think, will shut you guys up!, you have no evidence to support what you say, I think you are arguing for the sake of arguing.
Golovkin vs Andrade would be a fantastic replacement for the Canel rematch!!!!!

This will be my last post and I'm not wasting any more time on this crap, I will try not to read your reply.

On a new topic which I'll find a bit less infuriating, congrats on coming second in PCOM, did you see JML14 won?

Re: GGG v. Alvarez II- Who You Got and Why?

Yes, I agree, we will just have to agree to disagree about Golovkin, Canelo, and Jacobs. Boxing is very subjective so we will just have to wait for the more objective results to play out in the ring.

He was training very hard to make the weight, but that is all. As you said, Chavez was in the shape of his life but that matters little because he has been lazy for years and didn't develop. Canelo fought a drained and limited fighter in what was essentially sparring for Canelo. Chavez Jr is not trash but he is only a good in-fighter who inherited his dad's chin. Chavez Jr had a super padded record, was handed a world title because of his last name, and only had one world level win versus Lee. We saw Chavez Jr's level when he got schooled by a very aged Sergio Martinez.

I suppose we will have to agree to disagree again, I am not interested in guys like Bellew who are not top level. Bellew is a good name on a resume but he will never be a top guy in a division. Bellew would get seriously embarrassed by the top Cruiserweights, the division is significantly better than when he was there. Don't put words into my mouth about Haye and Bellew fight. Everyone knows prime Haye would have beat Bellew easily, but Haye is shot now. Winning versus an injured opponent is not fair and square which is why they are having a rematch. There is zero chance Bellew beats Whyte, you are just being rediculous now. Bellew is a blown up Light Heavyweight, Whyte is a legitimate Heavyweight, weights matter.

You are the one who is just assuming they are clean because you like them. I don't hate Lomachenko or Joshua and I don't really care that Joshua is on steroids. Using your logic, have some faith in Povetkin and Ortiz, they passed their tests for their most recent fights.

Both were terrible in terms of the rematch being competitive so does it really matter?

If you don't think that fighting Canelo or Golovkin is the end goal for Saunders, I don't really know what to tell you because it is the clear-cut best option for him both in terms of money and oppertunity. Use google and look up how he has pulled out of the Charlo and Derevyanchenko fights as well as failing to negotiate with Lara when Lara was interested in the fight. You are the one assuming about Andrade, we know almost nothing about the guy and he has been a pro for nine and a half years because he refuses to take meaningful fights. In that time his best opponents are Martirosyan and Culcay of all people yet you want me to take him seriously.

Yes I saw that, things will get more interesting once we get into the more 50/50 fights like Lara vs. Hurd, Truax vs. Degale II, etc. I think pretty much everyone agreed on the results for the other fights.

Re: GGG v. Alvarez II- Who You Got and Why?

I started to type up a reply, but I'm not wasting any more time on this, you know boxing, but you do not know as much as you think you do about every aspect, you are wrong about Haye vs Bellew, you read far too much into how good fighters look at a certain level, you buy into things like fighters not declining in their mid thirties, you speculate about fighters being on PEDs when they are not, but you know a lot about certain aspects, but just accept when you get something wrong, because there is no shame in it!

I maintain that Bellew beats Whyte, I think you need a spelling lesson, and you are certainly someome who exaggerates a lot! After Bellew has pulled out upset over upset, he has 0% chance against absolutely nobdoy, much less against someone of Whyte's level! Bellew would be the underdog, but I'd be 60% sure Bellew wins.

But he doesn't though, he has promotional issues, don't be stupid and assume fighters who train to get themselves in great shape, just to not fight tough opponents, just use your logic, Adonis Stevenson, ok, but he already has a title.

Re: GGG v. Alvarez II- Who You Got and Why?

You likewise know about boxing as well but we both have to accept there is a good amount of subjectivity to it. Haye vs. Bellew is certainly not a hill I will die on, I don't really care to argue about that fight. I am simply saying Golovkin appears to be declining more than he likely is because of his opposition. I have done enough research to know that some fighters that haven't tested positive are certainly juicing.

There is no legitimate reason to believe Bellew could beat Whyte which is why you are going to the logic that he has upset people before (who other than Haye?) and therefore he will do it again.

Not all of Andrade's lack of opposition can be blamed on promotional issues. In addition, since you believed there was zero chance Saunders and Warren would cancel the Murray fight, perhaps you should look up Warren's most recent statement. Warren is saying they would cancel the Murray fight and fight Golovkin in early June which won't happen, but it proves they at least consider things like that.

Re: GGG v. Alvarez II- Who You Got and Why?

I m in love with watching Canelo vs Golovkin II match, I m supporting Golovkin, what you think who will be the man of the match between Canelo vs Golovkin

Re: GGG v. Alvarez II- Who You Got and Why?

Welcome to Eye on the ring!

Let's hope GGG can deliver the goods and beat the drugs cheat!!

Re: GGG v. Alvarez II- Who You Got and Why?

Are we getting spammers again?

Re: GGG v. Alvarez II- Who You Got and Why?

Im also rooting for GGG to beat the cheat! Canelo is a disgrace to our sport. Hopefully he is not on anything this time and gets stopped.

Re: GGG v. Alvarez II- Who You Got and Why?

100% agree.

Big drama show let's go let's go!