Vasyl Lomachenko vs Teofimo Lopez Scorecard by Champion97


scorecard by CHAMPION97
Round
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Total
VASYL LOMACHENKO
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112
TEOFIMO LOPEZ
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116

Fight:



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Vasyl Lomachenko

Teofimo Lopez



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Champion97's picture

Who in the heavyweight division apart from Fury do you think has a bad style for Usyk? Because I think Pulev has a perfect style for Usyk, and his style is very different to Chisora's.

Gold's picture

Honestly, I think if Joshua fights the right fight he does. Come in heavier, take him to the inside and try to wear Usyk down, he would be much larger, stronger, more powerful, and with more range to either be inside or out of range. If he fought the "Antomir Joshko" style, which I doubt he would, I think that would be a bad decision for him and would give Usyk a good shot. I agree Pulev's style is the easiest of the top contenders for Usyk. I don't think Usyk will beat Fury or Joshua, his best chance is Wilder but it's similar to all opponents of Wilder where if Wilder can time the one shot Usyk is finished, I don't know who I would favor in that fight. I think Usyk's best chance is to try to force the WBO mandatory if they make Joshua vs. Fury, then target the vacant WBO and if he wins he can match that against the Joshua vs. Fury winner.

Do you know if it's true that Chisora doesn't have a legitimate trainer for this fight/his corner? That's what I saw but it wasn't from an official source.

I assume you saw the news about Tank vs. LSC being on Channel 5 in the UK, glad to hear someone picked it up.

Champion97's picture

I mostly agree on Usyk, I think Joshua's style is bad for him for the reasons you mentioned, I think he'd beat Wilder because I think he could push Wilder onto the back foot, obviously not as easily as Fury, but although he can box great on the back foot himself, Usyk didn't take more shots as he pushed Bellew onto the back foot, Briedis as well, and neither of them are fighters who come apart when pushed on the back foot, what I'm saying is, I think Usyk is strong enough to push a -220 lb Wilder onto the back foot, he's a better inside fighter than Wilder, is defensively great, it only takes 1 shot with Wilder, but I'd be confident Usyk would win that. I think Joshua and Whyte are good opponents for Wilder because neither of them are good enough inside fighters or able to defensively cut the distance well enough to rough Wilder up on the inside, Wilder would have the gap to potentially pull the trigger with the right hand. Do you think the WBO won't be persuaded to let Joshua keep the belt and fight Fury?It's not about belts, but there's something about a battle for undisputed.

I don't know, sorry, but I know that was the plan for the Price fight, so it wouldn't surprise me, it seemed to me that Haye was very involved in the game plan for Whyte II, he's been in the gym with Chisora, so he's something of a trainer.

Yeah, thanks man, can't wait, also, good card tonight, with Ellis vs Rocha, Soto vs Buitrago.

Gold's picture

I think the threat of Wilder will hurt Usyk's offense, he won't be able to push him back as easily as Bellew or Briedis. Agreed about Wilder and Joshua/Whyte. I think they will allow the undisputed fight but there could be a WBO rule issue with that, if so they don't want to expose themselves to a legal action.

I'm watching, thinking Tureano Johnson will pull the upset.

Champion97's picture

It would make him cautious, but in my opinion, not enough, I don't think Wilder is good at knicking rounds at a slow pace, I don't think Wilder would do a good job of taking advantage of that. If course he wouldn't, what I'm saying is, I think he still could, and he's a fighter who knows how to come forward and apply pressure without being an easy target himself, I think he's still technically in the pocket if he's in Wilder's range, is pushing him back, but Usyk is very defensively aware. True, but I suppose it depends how much is in it for them, I think money is likely to be the difference in all these scenarios.

I watched an interview with Bellew earlier, interesting analysis on his fight with Usyk, he was saying he was drained mentally after 7 rounds, because of how Usyk used his front foot to always make him react.

I don't know whether your joking man, if not, I think there's no such thing as a bad prediction, but I'd be shocked if Johnson won.

Gold's picture

Speaking of Wilder, this is one of the greatest boxing-related videos I've seen https://twitter.com/BronzeBomber/status/1322616633039286272 incredible he would put that out. Fury may have finished him mentally.

That doesn't surprise me about Usyk, but I don't think that will matter as much in the Chisora fight because of the different approaches we'd expect from Bellew and Chisora

Yes, Tureano got blown out lol, we'll see if they can make a real fight for Munguia soon.

Champion97's picture

Joke that he calls Breland a disloyal trainer, Wilder has himself to blame, doesn't listen to Breland, anyone who knows boxing knows that wasn't a premature stoppage. If Wilder loses his next fight, I wonder if wearing a face mask all week will have taken it out of him.

Bellew said that as well, but it was still interesting to hear Bellew's take on his own fight against Usyk, he's not only a gracious loser, but happy to break down his demise in that fight.

I saw the highlight, I wasn't impressed by Munguia at all, it looked like Rozier had a good game plan for Johnson, pushing Munguia onto the back foot, making him work, but I've never seen a lip injury like that, it would have been interesting to see how Munguia adapted for the rest of the fight. I don't see much improvement from Munguia, he needs a new trainer in my opinion, he's very young, so he has time, but he hasn't been impressive in hisast few fights.

Gold's picture

Exactly, awful look for Wilder.

I didn't really watch the fight to be honest, I think it is time to sink or swim for Munguia, if the fights are available it's time to start matching him more aggressively.

What did you make of Saturday's fights? I thought Inoue and Tank did as expected, both performed well. I think it would have been interesting if the Tank fight would have gone longer, but LSC got too lazy and left himself open for that counter shot. I wouldn't be surprised if they made Tank vs. Gary Russell next, I don't know what other PBC options he has at 130 or 135, the cross promotional big fights will likely have to wait. I heard they want to rebook Inoue vs. Casimero, sounds like the logical next fight if it isn't the Oubaali vs. Donaire winner. I'd also seriously like to see Prograis vs. Broner as I mentioned before, I think Prograis only had a one fight deal with PBC but if he signs with PBC again that seems like a logical fight to make while they wait for the undisputed champion to be settled at 140.

Champion97's picture

He accused him of spiking his water as well as stopping it too early, he's a fool.

We've discussed Munguia's opposition before, but I don't think his opposition is his biggest issue at 24, I'm surprised we haven't seen significant improvement from him given he's training with Erik Morales.

Haven't seen Inoue vs Moloney yet. I saw your post on Usyk vs Chisora, and I agree with it. I wasn't particularly impressed by Davis, he looked drained to me, and the 3 months weren't enough for him to get to the level he was at against Pedraza, Walsh etc, he did a good job of knocking it out of Santa Cruz with body shots, and the finisher was obviously a great shot. Davis has talent, has power, timing, but discipline the difference between Lopez and Davis in my opinion.

Inoue against the Oubaali vs Donaire winner or Casimero are goodd fights for Inoue. Broner can definitely make 140 if he trains hard enough, good fight, but is there enough in it for Broner?, he'd have to train hard to make 140, Prograis has no belt, but is hard to beat, I agree it might be Prograis's best option given 140 is Top Rank's division.

Gold's picture

Yeah, but that's the problem, he isn't improving so the promoters may want to try to match him with a difficult opponent to get a cash return and to see where he's at.

I didn't think he looked bad in the fight, I think Santa Cruz was always going to have a faster start. He said he liked camp in Las Vegas, hopefully he will either move there or consider doing his camps there, the change of scenery from Baltimore seems to do him well.

I think so, I think the only higher profile fight he could take is versus Thurman but that depends on Thurman. Prograis vs. Broner would be a headline fight on Showtime or Fox. I assume the winner of Taylor vs. Ramirez will move up rather than fight mandatories, maybe if Taylor wins he can be persuaded to take the rematch versus Prograis, but that seems to be a decent amount of risk for the reward. Even if Prograis stays with PBC, once the undisputed winner drops the belts there will be open season for guys like Prograis.

Champion97's picture

You mean so they can make more money off him? Good point.

It's not that he lost the first 2 rounds on both our cards, it's that he was so uncomfortable against Santa Cruz, I know Cruz didn't look like a small fighter, but he made 118 at 24, it was his second fight at 130, and Davis looked drained to me, he looked soft, was defensive against body shots, looked tired, he wouldn't have landed a fight finisher like that if he was gassed, his recovery was good, I wouldn't say I was unimpressed, but discipline, not living the life, is what might stop him from being a great fighter.

I could see that fight happening if Ugas vs Thurman doesn't happen, I think Thurman would fight Broner, aim to be the first to stop him, but Broner is more likely to want that fight in my opinion, he wouldn't have to make 140, Thurman has been less active than Prograis, has more vulnerabilities. What a division if the winner of Taylor vs Ramirez moves up, and it would be great for Top Rank, the winner of that fight against Crawford would be the fight to make.

Which fight are you most looking forward to this month?

Gold's picture

Yeah, but also I believe he is with Golden Boy through Zanfer? If Zanfer is his primary promoter I wouldn't hold my breath, they aren't very aggressive with their guys, which is interesting because the opposite is true with Golden Boy. I can't see how they wouldn't target GGG vs. Munguia again or Andrade vs. Munguia. Both of those Munguia would be the underdog but he still has some small chance of winning and they are the steps up in opposition I think he needs. If you were building Munguia, who would you match him against next?

I wasn't watching the fight critically enough to have a real position on that. I was impressed by the build of Santa Cruz, as you said, he didn't look like a small fighter. I wasn't surprised it took Davis a few rounds to get the timing of the faster Santa Cruz, but I will have to rewatch it. Davis has a ways to go to reach his potential but his fight went over well with casuals as far as I can tell, lots of people talking about him so strategically the fight seems to have made sense.

I think if Broner is an option that makes more sense for Thurman at this point in his career, I think Thurman is more winnable for Broner than Prograis given what you said, but Broner is also more winnable than Ugas is for Thurman. Plus like Prograis vs. Broner, the fight would do well based on them hyping the fight, except even more with Thurman instead of Prograis. They have to do something with Crawford next fight, people are tired of the excuses, they haven't been as creative as they could have been. I think Crawford beats both Taylor and Ramirez, I'm going to pick Taylor versus Ramirez and I think Taylor is the tougher fight for Crawford, both would be good fights for him though. They really should have angled for the Teixiera fight if they couldn't make the Pacquiao fight for this fight, that was the only other acceptable fight if they couldn't get Thurman, Porter, etc. The Brook fight is trash, it doesn't do anything for Crawford's career.

I think the Dubois vs. Joyce fight is probably the most interesting to me, also the Povetkin vs. Whyte rematch. We've already discussed both of those, but what do you think? Not a great month but not bad either, we got spoiled last month. Also, you may have heard but the Kyoguchi fight is off from what I've seen, positive COVID test for Kyoguchi.

Champion97's picture

I don't know either, I suppose what I was saying about him having a lot of time also favours the argument he should be in a big fight now, because a young fighter can afford to lose, has time to rebuild. I think Golovkin would make more sense for Munguia because he's more of a name on his resume, the timing would obviously favour Munguia, and I think Andrade would beat Golovkin comfortably now, but you could argue Andrade makes more sense for him, Golovkin hits harder than Andrade, is a better pressure fighter, and I think his style is worse for Munguia than Andrade's. I know you're not sold on Andrade, but do you agree Golovkin is a better opponent for Munguia on account of the timing and higher reward of the fight?

I agree it made sense for Davis, Santa Cruz is a big enough name, should have been a fairly easy fight for Davis. The key question for him is, will he be more disciplined?

I take it you've heard about Broner being sentenced for a crime he committed in 2018.

A lot of people are looking forward to the fight, believe it or not, I don't think it's complete trash, but I don't think it's an interesting fight, and Crawford will have to be very dominant to be impressive. I agree, the Postol comparison certainly favours Taylor, I think he has the slightly better resume, but yes, both good fights.

Those 2, but Benn vs Formella is a good fight, it will be interesting to see how Benn deals with Formella's negative style, Formella won't give him much to capitalise on, I think Benn is underrated, I think he has been impressive given he's learning on the job, had a short amateur career, is a very young fighter. Magramo vs Nakatani is a good fight as well, it's not a high profile fight, but they are well matched. I saw that, but it wasn't a good fight, I don't think Simsri would have got to the late rounds or made it competitive. You'll have a better understanding of the logistics than me, but I'd have thought Kyoguchi would have been matched better given how competitive 108 is.

Gold's picture

I think Golovkin makes more sense as well for the reasons you listed, I heard a while back that they wanted to have Golovkin's mandatory this winter but I haven't seen anything about it. I know the conditions are bad but they need to make that fight happen. After that, who knows, perhaps Munguia is an option but I think they want to get the Canelo trilogy. I think that Andrade is more realistic but he has Liam Williams next who should be live in the fight.

Yeah and I don't know if anyone can answer that question other than Davis.

I heard that about Broner, as far as I could tell he was held in contempt rather than sentenced for the crime he was at court for. It's really stupid though, everything about it is, who knows if he will be fighting again soon as he said he would.

That's interesting, to be fair, I've seen some people suggest Brook could have success but they seem to be a very small minority. They put another good November fight on there, Franco vs. Moloney II.

I assume that entire card is postponed given Povetkin's positive COVID test, but yeah, I think Benn vs. Formella is interesting as well. Benn's development is interesting to follow, I think if he keeps succeeding they should match up some of the 147 prospects at Matchroom who aren't moving quickly, Josh Kelly vs. Yeleussinov would be a good one in my opinion. I'm interested in the Nakatani fight, he's been a prospect for a while in Japan, he should win. There are conflicting TV contracts in Japan like elsewhere, obviously the Ken Shiro fight is what everyone would want but I believe that may be a TV conflict. Hopefully, the fight will happen tough because a lot of people want to see that. It is just hard in general to make unifications at low weight classes because there isn't a lot of money, I think if they do another WBSS they should definitely do 108, it is something manageable in terms of money and there are a good amount of quality guys there. I think Bam Rodriguez should try to target a belt soon with maybe one more fight against a contender/former title challenger level guy, he could add a lot to an already good division.

Champion97's picture

Yes, I remember the Szemereta fight was supposed to happen. I know it's a big money fight, but it's bad for Golovkin to wait for Canelo when Canelo has all these contractual issues.

My mistake, but he has legal issues whatever the situation is, and he looked heavy, he hasn't fought in almost 2 years, he'll only get worse. Prograis vs Hooker would be a good fight, pity they have different promoters.

I think the fight is average for a Crawford fight, I don't think he'll do worse than Horn and Khan, but I don't think he'll do better than Kavaliauskas. Yeah, I expect a more convincing win for Franco, I think he'll get a late stoppage based on him coming on strong and scoring a late knock down in the first fight, I might change my mind, I think either a UD or a late stoppage.

I'm surprised Povetkin has been hospitalised, because from what I understand, covid is very, very unlikely to be life threatening or even that serious an illness for a 40 year old, caucasian athlete. I'm more impressed by him than I am by either of them based on the recent form of the 3 fighters, I know the other 2 are a lot better schooled, so they would be interesting fights. Have you seen Nakatani or Magramo fight? There's also the question of weight, I think Shiro would be more likely to move up, Nakatani is big at 112, he would struggle to make 108 now, Shiro would need at least 1 fight at 112 before fighting Nakatani. WBSS at 108 would be great, hopefully if covid improves next year. I saw his fight against Edwin Reyes, I'd imagine Robert Garcia will have him sparring Licona, who was the IBF champion at 105.

Gold's picture

I don't necessarily think it's waiting if he takes the Szemereta fight this winter, then they'll hopefully be closer to knowing Canelo's situation.

Funnily enough, AB is not in jail, last night he was on Mikey Garcia's Instagram story taking shots with Mikey at the Palms lol. I'm not overly interested in Prograis vs. Hooker, I honestly would rather see Prograis vs. Broner for the entertainment factor, I don't think either of them have a good chance versus Prograis, but obviously Hooker has more than Broner.

You mean you think he'll do worse than Horn/Khan and better than Kavaliauskas? I think so as well with Franco, he's had to grind it out in the sport so I'm glad its worked out for him.

I'm surprised as well, but it may be precautionary as it can do some respiratory damage and cause weight loss in bad cases. I agree about Benn vs. the other two. Hopefully, the Kelly vs. Avanesyan fight is still on, I'll be picking Avanesyan to win. I don't really know what to make of Yeleussinov vs. Indongo, Indongo got blown out by Crawford and Prograis but he has some good wins and Yeleussinov isn't a puncher. Perhaps it could be interesting if Indongo is well prepared. I don't know if Shiro wants to move up or not, Nakatani is huge, he won't be at 112 for much longer. I hope they can make Kyoguchi vs. Shiro. I didn't know Licona was with Garcia, I assume he has a big stable though.

Champion97's picture

I suppose if he has a tune up or at least a fight that doesn't really damage him, and Canelo doesn't fight this winter, that favours Golovkin, but it's not enough in my opinion.

I think he'll do similar to how they did, but not as well as Kavaliauskas, I think Kavaliauskas scored a legitimate knock down, won at least 1 clear round, maybe 2, I don't see Brook doing that, but I DON'T think it's an especially easy fight for Crawford, so the fight isn't trash any more than the Khan fight was, people in the UK are giving Brook a good shot, but I know that won't surprise you. He's Jesse Rodriguez'z brother if you didn't already know, he's learned on the job, Franco.

From what I've heard, he's not in serious trouble, so I think you're right about it being precautionary. I'd need to think about the fight before making a prediction, but hopefully the fight happens. Indongo can't be denied as a good fighter based on the Burns and Troyanovsky wins, but his balance is terrible, he isn't durable, isn't adaptable, relies on his reach as his defence, he's been inactive, I'd be surprised if Yeleussinov didn't stop him. That's the fight to make, Japanese boxing is on a high, Kyoguchi vs Shiro would be brilliant. Massive stable, I believe he has about 30 fighters, his sons help him out, but he's a busy man, has to be respected, he doesn't charge his fighters rent, and when they are not training, they can keep busy with his livestock, keeps them from leaving the gym and getting into trouble.

You might have heard, Berchelt has covid, the Valdez fight won't happen anytime soon, which is disappointing. Helenius vs Kownacki II is being discussed, that's a good fight, I was shocked Helenius pulled it out, I don't know whether it was about styles, or if Kownacki underestimated Helenius, but the rematch is interesting.

Gold's picture

It's not more trash than the Khan fight in isolation, Brook will probably do better, but it's more trash in the context of having poor strength of schedule and other options. Did any of the people you've heard from the UK give a good reason? I was aware about Franco and Rodriguez, it's rare to have two brothers doing well at the same time in the sport.

What do you think of Yeleussinov's seeming lack of power? I haven't been impressed by him generally but his power stood out as lacking when I watched him on previous undercards. I don't watch his videos but Robert seems like a good and honest guy.

I heard that about Berchelt and Stevenson wanted to step up to make him versus Valdez, I think if Valdez wants it they should move forward with that. I don't know what to make of Helenius vs. Kownacki II, Helenius winning was a really big upset, I think it could have come down to Kownacki's preparation but I'm not basing that on anything I've heard or know. It seems possible that Helenius would be someone who could be easily overlooked and he's known as a good puncher.

Champion97's picture

Nothing interesting, they just make it one sided, talk about what they've Brook was capable of for years, how he's confident he can beat anyone, it's wishful thinking. It depends how high your standards of doing well are I suppose, but I think the Charlos are the best example.

I haven't seen him fight in a while, but it's more a mental thing from what I've seen, I don't think he has the mindset of a finisher, isn't adapting well to the pros, has seemed to coast at times, I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't stop Indongo, but I think Indongo will be an easy target, with Yeleussinov's accuracy, technical skill, and I think he has the sheer power to stop Indongo.

Move forward with Stevenson vs Valdez? All great fights, what a division for Top Rank.

I think Kownacki underestimated Helenius, didn't think he could hurt him, but Helenius has underrated power, hurt Whyte bad, knocked out Teper, he couldn't hurt Chisora, but Chisora has a granite chin. I think Kownacki beats Helenius in a rematch, but he needs to make some adjustments.

I'm rewatching Wilder vs Fury II, it was suggested on YouTube, I don't believe for a second that there's any truth in any of Wilder's excuses, but I didn't like the look of his demeanor before the first bell and in the first couple of rounds, didn't look confident, I wonder if he was anxious, and the pressure got to him, might not have been the case, but it's worth considering, he was definitely too heavy, and if he knows he wasn't at his best, that might be why he's made excuses, but if he was nervous or anxious, he won't want to admit that. I definitely think Wilder can't beat Fury, but if he had a problem, that might explain why the fight was one sided, and he was gassing after 2 rounds, it might just be down to Fury's pressure and him being too heavy.

Gold's picture

If so that would be a good start for Yeleussinov, for someone with his amateur background there's basically no hype around him.

Yeah, move forward with Stevenson vs. Valdez, I think it is great for them as well but they actually have to make the fights for the guys they have, hopefully they will if Lomachenko is going back to 130 and Stevenson is going up to 130.

Logically Kownacki should, but I also think it's possible that Kownacki's level is bottom of the top 10 level contender, if so, it's not surprising Helenius could beat him even if Kownacki would beat him more often than not.

I think a lot of the factors combined to make Fury look great and Wilder look poor, perhaps Wilder was anxious but that's reading into something we'll never know about and doesn't necessarily mean they'll do poorly or lose. Do you mean Wilder can beat Fury? I think he could but I don't know if he can anymore, all of the excuse making, seems like a defeated fighter and Fury lives rent free. He needs to reset, I don't know if he can or will though.

I assume you saw the news about Canelo, I think them going their separate ways was the best realistic result for both parties. Canelo vs. Plant is apparently being discussed, I think that would be an interesting fight as we don't really know where Plant is at. I'm glad Canelo wants to get back in the ring soon though. Golovkin is also apparently targeting December for his mandatory.

Champion97's picture

It doesn't back up the saying 'a win is a win', there are good fighters like Haney and even Andrade, who have good skill sets, but don't make statements.

I don't see why they wouldn't, Arum might hope Valdez, Lomachenko beat Stevenson, if the young fighter loses, that builds a rematch.

When I say anxious, I don't mean the usual anxiety, when fighters control and channel their nerves, he was pacing and blowing before the first bell, which isn't a good sign, Fury looked very calm, maybe the reality of the fight hit him just before the first bell, and he knew in the back of his mind he'd struggle to win, I'm not saying it was a big factor, but it might the reason he's making so many excuses, if he knows he could have done better, but won't admit he was nervous. Whether anxiety played a part, I don't know, but I think the main reasons Wilder tired early were that he was pushed onto his back foot and was working under pressure, and because he was at a career heaviest, Fury leaning on him was the only issue with his weight the first time.

No, no typo, I think he can't, Fury's control of the distance, inside fighting, reactive movement isn't something Wilder can deal with, I'm not saying anxiety was much of a factor in the outcome, but I think it could explain why the fight was so easy for Fury. It's sad to see, he's only embarrassing himself, he isn't damaging Breland's reputation, he's holding a grudge, but only making himself look worse, I noticed when I watched it again, after round 6, Breland is trying to warn Wilder he needs to see something, but Deas doesn't let him get a word in. Do you think the situation with Wilder and Breland is similar to Trump and Fauci? I think so, an ignorant individual who only listens to yes men.

Yes, Dywer's latest video is interesting, laying out all his options, I don't have the knowledge on the subject to have much of an opinion. Do you think parting ways was the best thing for Golden Boy? I read that, I was hoping PBC would make Plant vs Benavidez, but that's a great fight, Canelo is a smart fighter, he'll know it's important to be active, he's fought twice a year, every year for the last decade more or less, most fighters are able to get 1 fight this year even with covid. If Canelo fights next year, that's at least 14 months, that will be a factor, but do you agree that more experienced fighters can get away with more time out? It's a pity these contractual issues have kept Canelo out the ring for a full year, hopefully the Plant fight gets done.

Gold's picture

Right, but who are those guys fighting? It's harder to grind it out as a non-draw fighter, being a strong draw allows for access to more money for opponents and therefore better opponents.

I think that's Eddie's logic, Arum has been very vocal about his opposition to rematch clauses in versus Eddie. I definitely disagree with that he would want him to beat Stevenson, Stevenson could have much higher earning potential for Top Rank than Valdez and Lomachenko, neither of them are big draws. Stevenson beating them would be good to build Stevenson up to a PPV level fighter.

I don't know, some guys admit they have been nervous before big fights and still won them. From MMA Georges St. Pierre said he was nervous before almost all of his fights if I remember correctly, still went 12-2 in title fights. It may affect others differently though, I agree with the rest of your analysis though.

I think Wilder can still win, maybe 1 or 2 at max out of 10 times? I still think there is a decent chance he lands the big punch, it just is very small with the adjustments Fury made. I think it is a good comparison between Trump and Wilder in that a lot of what they did successfully was about building an image rather than substance. They have strategic strengths but when forced to go outside of them they struggle immensely. The "speak it, believe it, receive it" mindset of Wilder would fit in well with Trump. There are a number of articles about Trump's mentality and "the power of belief" if you are interested but there are a lot of people outside of those two that could fit that. People with that type of belief don't do well with people who try to logically go about things and come in conflict with what they are saying. Perhaps it is a chicken and the egg issue but that mentality will seek out yes men.

It was the best thing for Golden Boy in that they didn't commit to sunk cost, trying to fight for the slim chance they could win in court. They avoided the legal fees and negative exposure from it. I don't know if it is true or they would have become public but they may have also avoided some contract documents being made public as well which could be of interest to other fighters and promoters. I think Canelo won't have issues with ring rust in part because of his experience like you are saying but he's also seemingly always in shape and in the gym, we've talked about him before as one of the most dedicated and hard working fighters out there.

I saw your comment on Haney vs. Gamboa, do you think a major difference between Haney and Ryan Garcia is athleticism? Garcia seems to be a very good athlete where Haney is just average or slightly above average, even though Garcia is greener skillwise you said you'd pick Garcia. I probably would as well, but I'm interested to hear your thoughts.

Did you hear Crawford's contract with Top Rank will be up soon? Make or break time for his career in my opinion, he's not getting younger.

Champion97's picture

I agree with all that, I was just stating the obvious about Haney not making a statement.

You're in all likelihood right on that one, I could see Stevenson being a bigger draw, his style is fan friendly enough even if he's a mover who is well schooled, doesn't get hit. Hopefully Top Rank make good at fights at 130 next year.

If St Pierre wasn't affected by his nerves, it's likely he was able to channel his anxiety, and use it as adrenaline, what I'm suggesting as a possible factor, was Wilder using up nervous energy.

I don't think he'd win one in every 10, I'd agree if Fury's recovery wasn't as good as it is, but if he'd been dropped heavy in the rematch, he'd have got up and recovered even faster.

I don't think I'll read an article about Trump, but thanks anyway. Yeah, it's the misuse of the power of belief, the power of belief is something I've found helpful for using my methods which have been effective for my own mental health when I've been given unhelpful and almost fatal 'advice' from ignorant therapists, if there's one thing I've learned, it's that mental health is often subjective and dependent on the person, but with physical health, there's no subjectivity or philosophy, and I suppose Wilder and Trump are both disputing facts about physical health, because Trump thinks he knows more about covid than Fauci, and Wilder has made himself believe the stoppage was unnecessary.

It probably doesn't help Wilder's mindset that when everyone else has been told they need to keep doing the basics, keep up their technique, he's been winning just by doing one thing, it was interesting, because when he responded a few years back to the criticism about his technical skill, I'd have expected to hear him say he can box and he's not needed to, like Tank, Teo Lopez, but his response was 'you don't need skill when you hit as hard I do', I think if he'd been in the Klitschko era, he could have taken over the division, but Fury had the measure of him. I'm concerned about Wilder's mental health if I'm honest, the amount of excuses seems like more than just a sore loser.

I agree, I think ring rust will be a non-issue if he fights this year, and a very minor issue if he fights next year. Canelo doesn't get enough credit in my opinion, I agreed with his critics when he got the ridiculous scoring in his favour, he gets A-side privileges you could argue he didn't always deserve, but I haven't seen a bad card in his favour since Byrd's 10-2, he's done it the hard way, he worked his way up, he didn't have to fight Lara. I saw a video from Dwyer about Canelo's future, and when he was talking about fighters who start young, he mentioned Wilfred Benitez, I looked him up, I didn't know he was in such bad health, very sad to see.

I've not seen that, I've never got the impression Haney doesn't grind as hard as Garcia, I'm more impressed with Garcia as a fighter, but not necessarily in terms of athleticism, I was impressed by his stoppage against Duno, he proved to be a defensive puncher, which I think is Campbell's biggest concern, Garcia wasn't impressive against Morales, but he's learned and improved since then, I might have said this before, but credit to Garcia Sr for admitting he couldn't help his son reach his full potential, I question whether Bill Haney has taken his son as far as he can. I haven't seen Haney's last 2 fights, I might watch some snippets at some stage, but in terms of athleticism, I was impressed by his explosiveness and agility againsy Moran and Abdullaev.

No I didn't, I agree, he should decline slowly, given he lives the life and is fresh, but he'll still gradually decline.

Gold's picture

Ah, understood.

Hopefully, I'm not super happy about the Khan Clary fight for Stevenson but it's not terrible I guess if they will put him in a title fight next. They just need to make the matchups, after Herring vs. Frampton they need to make unifications or match their titlists against Stevenson and Lomachenko.

Sorry to hear that, some therapists are not good or at the most generous not good fits for some people. It's important to have at least some self-belief in general, it's hard to advance yourself in life fighting yourself as well. In boxing that is taken to the most extreme where in some cases it can be better to be deluded rather than realistic.

I think so as well about Wilder. I think this mediation/lawsuit stuff is just to save face in public. If he wanted the fight he would have made the deadline, end of conversation. The stuff he's saying is an example of where it can go wrong being deluded.

Unfortunately the Plant fight isn't happening, I heard that Plant wanted more time to prepare, seems like a bad business decision on his part. It's relatively low career risk and high reward to fight Canelo even if it is on a shortened camp. Some people have suggested he's targeting BJS or Smith again, I don't know if that will happen given there may still be some animosity with DAZN. They were a big part of Canelo's issues. Yeah, Benitez is in awful health, he didn't live the life and burned out very early. Extremely gifted fighter, one of the most gifted I've ever seen.

I think Haney is a hard worker, I'm not doubting that, he probably has to work harder than someone like Garcia who has more natural talent. What I'm saying is Garcia's speed, power, and reactions look like they are far above Haney's. The Gamboa fight was telling to me in regard to that. Shame about Garcia vs. Campbell, hopefully they will reschedule it, a lot of people want to see it.

Ioka vs. Tanaka confirmed for NYE, should be a great fight. Not an easy matchup for either guy and Tanaka is going right into a title fight at 115. Hopefully there will be a stream available and people outside of Japan can watch. I saw that Berlanga called out Chavez Jr because he misinterpreted something Chavez Jr said. I didn't think I would want to see Jr in the ring again but I would be interested in that fight. Chavez Jr has a good chin, let's see what Berlanga can do when he has to do more than just blow a guy out in one round. What do you think of that matchup?

Champion97's picture

I agree, it might be the timing as well, if he can fight at a certain time and his rivals need more time, not bad for a tune up, Clary.

I think you'll vouch for my progress, and have seen the difference in the last couple of years even over the Internet, still not great, but far better than before, and I did it with methods I was told in no uncertain terms by 'specialists' were irrational and would never work, and my local GP told me to keep using my strategies because that was what would make me better, which was helpful, it's no wonder OCD therapy has the highest drop out rate. I agree, some aren't good fits for some people with any mental health issue, people's minds can respond well to highly regarded methods, but others minds can react disastrously if they're backed into a corner, being open minded and respectful of people's identities is paramount for any mental health professional. I think it's all about thinking logically, but in Wilder's case, he's gone past the point where he can think logically.

I just hope Wilder is stable, if he's low, in a dark place, there's a lot that can be done, but if he's in crisis, he's a risk to himself, I haven't seen signs if being a suicide risk, but I've prayed for his mental health, and something you said after the Fury fight was that it didn't change your opinion on Wilder, because you said he wasn't adaptable, just looked for a home run swing in the first fight, knew he was one dimensional, and that's what people should remember, he earned his respect when he beat Stiverne and Ortiz, he showed a lot of heart against Fury, it's a shame for him the Joshua fight didn't get made, I think Joshua was the fight opponent for him style wise, and Klitschko would have been as well, because at long range, Klitschko and Joshua couldn't have avoided the straight and over hand right for 12 rounds, they don't have good chins, neither are good enough inside fighters to take advantage of Wilder's lack of an inside game.

I think think of any other reason the Smith or Saunders fights wouldn't happen, they both have belts, which fight do you think would sell better? Saunders is more outspoken, made more of a name for himself in the US when he beat Lemieux, but Smith is bigger, beat Groves, hits harder, and there's the narrative of trying to avenge his brother, which could sell the fight. I don't know what the best case scenario is, he doesn't look much different to Prichard Colon, disgraceful he was allowed to continue fighting after he was diagnosed with a brain condition.

It will be easier to say when they are both more tested, I think they'll reschedule it for that reason, but if Povetkin is any measuring stick, it the fight won't happen until late February at the earliest, because Povetkin's promoter has just said Povetkin is unlikely to be ready for the rematch in late January.

Has that been finalised? Great fight, we've discussed the fight before, but I've forgot who you had winning.

I don't think a lot of that matchup because even if Chavez holds up for a few rounds, his work ethic isn't enough to test Berlanga enough, and Berlanga can work at his own pace, I think 3 rounds against a live opponent is a better test than 6 rounds against Chavez, I know he has a good chin, but it wouldn't take much for him to quit, it's usually sad when fighters quit, but I don't think Chavez is bothered about quitting. Chavez is a good opponent for Berlanga just to get some rounds, but it's not interesting because I don't think Chavez tries his best.

Gold's picture

Yeah and that's the problem for some practitioners, especially those who may be inexperienced. Some solutions to mental issues can seem very idiosyncratic but if they produce results and aren't harmful in themselves they shouldn't be discouraged. I think Wilder bought into his own image too much, so when he lost it may have put him on the defensive.

I don't think he's in a crisis as in his health is at risk, I haven't seen anything that's suggested he is at least. He's just deluded about the fight which has happened to many boxers in the past. I think Wilder can still get big matchups, they just have to do a bit of rebuilding.

Seems I was wrong about the Smith fight and it's on. Good fight and it's rumored that Garcia vs. Campbell could be moved to that date which would be an extremely good co-main, but I don't think it makes a lot of business sense. There was also a rumor I think on boxingscene Canelo will sign a three fight deal with PBC after the Smith fight including fighting against Plant, I think that would be an excellent option. I expect one of the other fights would be versus Jermall Charlo which would be a really big fight.

Have you seen what Whyte has said about Povetkin? He's criticized Wilder for being delusional and is doing the same thing, saying Povetkin is faking COVID.

Yeah, Ioka vs. Tanaka is finalized, I will pick Ioka as the more experienced 115, but it's a good matchup.

That's true, he may quit versus Berlanga, I think it is interesting because it will give him rounds and is a good career building fight.

Did you see Donaire vs. Rodriguez for the vacant WBC 118? and Oubaali will face the winner as the champion in recess. I think it is a slight downgrade but I can't complain about that fight at all.

Champion97's picture

Another problem is how much credibility people can get from the Internet, people can present themselves as anything without having credentials, it's also a problem that some issues aren't well understood even if they have been documented for the last few years, mine is one of them, but hopefully in the future, these problems will be better understood.

It just seems strange, the amount of excuses, it just seems that anyone who's not mentally I'll wouldn't be able to take themselves seriously, but I hope you're right. He hasn't taken too much physical damage for it, Breland saved him for another day, but it's a case of him being well matched, and his handlers would be unwise to match him against Ruiz.

Seems to be, I was going to add it, I will when it's finalised, but I don't like getting people's hopes up until the fight is confirmed. Sorry, I don't quite know what you mean, do you mean Garcia vs Campbell will be chief support for another fight? Great about Canelo signing with PBC, had to be impressed by Charlo against Derevyanchenko, that's the fight to make if Canelo campaigns at 160.

Like with Rushton, I have to say you were right, Whyte gave a sickening IFL interview, accused the reporter of being biased in Fury's favour, I'm not repeating what he said, I shouldn't hold it against him, but it's the most disgusting talk I've ever heard, and it triggered my mental illness, (intrusive thoughts), I warned people on YouTube not to watch that sickening part of the video, IFL should have cut it out. While I stand by what I say about Ortiz not being more deserving overall, it's a valid point he turned down Ortiz and Joshua, he might have been advised to turn down Ortiz, but obviously not Joshua, the only reason to call Joshua a 'lanky piece of shit' would have been to build the fight, and it was a unification. Whyte was asked about fighting Usyk, Hunter, his response was a duck if I've ever seen one.

I'll lean towards Tanaka, but it could be a 50/50 fight, I'd have to watch them fight again before breaking it down.

I didn't see it was for the vacant title. I like that fight, I'm a fan of Donaire, I expect him to win. I'm watching Inoue vs Moloney, Inoue looks solid after 2 rounds.

Gold's picture

Less is known about the human brain and how/why it works than I think the layman would expect, as you said, hopefully research continues to make breakthroughs.

Yeah, this has to be one of the worst in recent memory. If he comes back against someone else on PBC who would you match him against? He could also fight in the WBC's nonsense new "division" lol.

Yeah, it was confirmed by a reliable journalist on espn.mx but it hasn't been officially announced yet. They were floating making Garcia vs. Campbell the co-main to Canelo vs. Smith, which that would be an amazing co-main but I don't know if it makes business sense considering Canelo will draw on his own.

I'll have to watch that interview if it was that bad, thanks for the disclaimer on it though. Whyte is just another guy strategically playing the matchups, I don't blame him and many have done it before him and many will do it after. I just didn't/don't like the misrepresentation of him. What did he say about Usyk and Hunter?

I would but I think him going straight up to Ioka from 112 and his tendency to brawl will cost him versus a well-schooled veteran like Ioka. Maybe I'm wrong though, I should watch some of their fights as well.

Hard to not be a fan of Donaire especially at this stage of his career. I think it's a winnable fight, I don't know if I will pick him or not but I hope he wins. I thought Inoue looked really quality in that fight for being out a year, Moloney is a top 10 guy at the weight and Inoue was on a different level as a very high quality offensive fighter.

To be honest, I'm kind of excited to see Crawford vs. Brook for some reason. I think it's just because I expect Crawford will step on the gas where other fighters might not or perhaps Brook will surprise. I know Brook has talked trash, said he will make Crawford quit and Crawford is old school. He might put a beating on Brook for that if he starts to get the best of the fight. Plus the co-main will be interesting.

Champion97's picture

I think Charles Martin is a good opponent for Wilder, the Ortiz fights are good southpaw preparation, Martin isn't the bum he looked like against Joshua, but it's a fight Wilder should win, I think Martin's style is good for Wilder.

I'll add it. You mean because they can make more money from 2 separate cards than having 2 big earners on the same card? They would have to schedule Canelo vs Smith around Campbell's recovery, which is another reason not to. What do you think of Canelo vs Smith as a fight?

Calling Joshua a lanky piece of shit might have been strategic, saying he'll fight anyone, but he tries to create a narrative that all the other heavyweights are cowards, and he's the only warrior. He said no one wants to see Usyk, he's boring, etc, that was after he knocked out Bellew, he was saying Hunter just runs his mouth, is an idiot, had no interest in talking about fighting him.

So am I, I've changed my mind about the fight slightly, not much, but I think Brook not living the life before the Spence camp was more the issue than him being too big, I don't think he's taken too much damage outside the eye injuries, and I think it will go the distance, I think it will be one sided, but I don't think it's a mismatch. He's talked less trash than before the Spence fight, I hope he gives a good account of himself, it's wrong that people call him a quitter when he was worried there was a good chance he'd go blind. That's the fight of the night, Moloney shouldn't be written off, but I think Franco is improving. Franco, Moloney, Ugas, are some of the lucky few who've fought twice this year.

Gold's picture

Maybe to build confidence back up, I don't think he's as bad as he looked versus Joshua but he's not a top 10 level guy.

Yeah, they should have two separate cards to maximize what they get out of the fighters. I think they believed 12/19 would be in line with Campbell's recovery, but I could be wrong. Canelo vs. Smith as I said to Salt I think is interesting, best fight available at 168. A lot of people before the Ryder fight thought Smith's size would give Canelo trouble, now a lot of people seem to think Canelo will break Smith down without much trouble. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but I think Canelo has been there so many times, he'll be able to get inside on Smith and go to work on his body which will break him down. I think Smith may win rounds like Kovalev did though as Canelo may take his time to get to work. What do you think? I may rewatch Smith vs. Ryder.

I think so, and that's probably the most annoying thing, how he acts like other fighters are cowards. As you mentioned he's turned down world title eliminators versus Ortiz and Pulev and a world title shot versus Joshua so how can he call other fighters cowards? I think Whyte can beat Hunter but it would be a tricky fight, low reward for the risk so I can see why he doesn't want it. Usyk would be tricky for him, I wonder if he changed his mind after the Chisora fight.

Brook's face looked pretty drawn in the picture I saw, we'll see pretty early on how his cut went. I think Crawford late KO, but hopefully it's a competitive fight.

Champion97's picture

That's what I mean, he took a mentally damaging loss, but if he beats Martin, he could fight the winner of Helenius vs Kownacki, I don't know if PBC would want to risk either of their heavyweight prospects in against Wilder any time soon, but Sanchez and Ajagba against Wilder would be interesting fights.

If so, that's ridiculous, 2 extra weeks is nowhere near enough time. I agree, I think we saw Smith against Groves, he can have a career high performance against Canelo, and size favours him, he's good enough to take advantage, but Canelo is a level above, has proven he can beat world class fighters who are much bigger. I agree, Smith is a target for body shots, he has a reach advantage, but Canelo is great at cutting distance, Smith has good fundamentals, a solid jab, but he doesn't have Kovalev's jab, can't control the distance as well as Kovalev, and he doesn't hit as hard, so Canelo will can position himself to land more body shots, and although Smith has a solid chin, he must be tight at the weight, he's done well to make 168 for a long as he has, I thought he seemed drained against Ryder. The fight is interesting, I wouldn't write Smith off, I think he has as good a shot as Kovalev had, if not better, he's a brilliant offensive fighter, is a counter puncher, his timing was brilliant against Groves, and he's a defensive puncher, is dangerous on the back foot, he can fight on the inside, he'll go to the body himself, I think the fight will be a lot more positive than the Kovalev fight.

I'd be fairly confident Hunter would beat him, Whyte could hurt him, the left hook could knock him out cold, but I think Hunter is too technically skilled. A fight I think would be interesting is Hunter vs Ruiz, that definitely wouldn't be a fight with many close rounds, it would be like Leonard and Hagler where they both have a lot of clear rounds, because it would be one sided if Hunter could use the ring, but as soon as Ruiz could land clean, it would swing in his favour.

Brook did great for 2 rounds, but that right hook was brilliant, Crawford made the adjustment with the feet, got the perfect angle and timing on the shot.

Gold's picture

I think it's fine to put in Kownacki or Sanchez with Wilder, Wilder can sell PPVs now, Kownacki and Sanchez will not. Neither of them are A-level prospects either. Ajagba is with Top Rank now, I don't know if you heard but Fury's December fight is off, they want to target Joshua or Wilder if Wilder's side wins the mediation. It won't happen but would you like to see Wilder vs. Usyk and the winner faces the Joshua vs. Fury winner? I think that makes the most competitive sense.

That's what I heard, I thought I heard Eddie was considering it and his case wasn't that bad and he was already in quarantine. (Edit: Supposedly Garcia vs. Campbell will be on the 26th, Golovkin vs. the mandatory on the 18th and Canelo vs. Smith on the 19th.) That's what I think as well, Smith is towards the end of his time at 168. Hopefully, he can make the weight well given he has a lot of motivation to do well in the fight. I hope Smith will go for it, I thought Kovalev's strategy maximized his chances but it wasn't a great watch. If Smith lets Canelo dictate the pace and action he's finished in my opinion, Canelo is too smart and skilled to lose a fight like that. It will be Smith's toughest test of his offense so far.

I think it may be tough for Hunter to grind it out because of the potential of Whyte's power, it depends if he can land it or not though, as you said if Hunter is able to use his skill it advantages him. Do you think Eddie will be able to make Hunter vs. Hrgovic? That would be an interesting fight. There are a lot of good fights that can be made at the contender level at heavyweight, but for a lot of political and financial reasons they aren't being made which is a shame. Hopefully, they will still go forward with Whyte vs. Povetkin II.

I saw a tweet about how Crawford is offensively at the best he's ever been and defensively at the worst he's ever been. Might be an exaggeration but he has been selling out to be the puncher and it's worked. I think some people don't give him full credit as an offensive fighter given his KO record. If he faces someone like Spence we'll see if he goes back to boxing him more or goes after him like he's been doing. I agree with your assessment of the punch, thought it had fantastic timing and placement. Brook looked finished after that shot even though he looked good beforehand. I as well think they should try to make him versus Khan, if he can't get that he should retire. Unfortunately, he's someone who didn't even come close to getting the best out of his career relative to his talent level even if he was a champion and #1 rated at the weight.

Do you know about this guy Arthur who Yarde is going to fight? I've seen some people say it's a competitive match-up but I don't follow UK prospects at that level of detail.

Champion97's picture

My bad, I should have known he went to Top Rank, I didn't see his last fight. Kownacki is a very entertaining fighter, but I suppose the loss damages his credibility. I think the third Wilder fight is more likely, the December fight would have made more sense to build the Joshua fight because if they fight on the same month, they're likely to agree on a fight date, it seems likely Wilder has legal backing and Fury expects to fight him. Love to see that, but Joshua vs Usyk next year would be great if Fury fights Wilder, and the winners fight at the end of the year.

3 weeks still seems like a push to me, he must have it very mildly, it seems his well being wasn't a concern at all, and the whole point of postponing the fight was to reduce the spread. Can't wait for Canelo vs Smith, I agree with everything you say there, but Smith and his team will have a good game plan, won't let Canelo dictate the pace, will make full use of his size advantage, I think Canelo will win, but Smith will raise his stock.

Whyte isn't a good finisher, and if he hurt Hunter, do you think he'd build on it well? Definitely, it makes sense for both, Hrgovic will know he can hurt Hunter, can get his best win and make a statement, he isn't as young as some of the heavyweight prospects like Dubois and Anderson, needs to take his chances then they come, and I think Hunter will fight anyone, he'll be confident he can out box Hrgovic, beat an unbeaten prospect, I don't see anything stopping that fight, do you agree? I don't see why they wouldn't go ahead with that fight.

I couldn't agree more, he's always had underrated power, is a defensive puncher as well as a fighter who does damage coming forward, people don't associate him with power because he's often too slick for his opponent, but he's proven he hits hard. I think he hits harder for his own size than Spence does, Spence is the better aggressive fighter, he obviously hits hard himself, would be the puncher in the fight if we say Crawford's natural weight is 140-147, and his is 154, but I don't think Spence hits harder in his natural weight class. I couldn't agree more about Brook, and I don't think Khan has ever wanted to fight him, I've never been an especially big fan of Brook, but I definitely think Khan is to blame for the fight not happening, we don't agree on pre fight trash talk, but surely we agree on trash talk with no intention of making the fight.

Sorry, I haven't seen him fight because he's a Queensbury fighter and fights on BT, good fight though, Yarde did well against Kovalev considering his trainer and the vast difference in experience, he'll have learned from that, it will be interesting to see where his career goes.

Gold's picture

I think the mediation is supposed to be decided on or by Friday so we'll see soon. Joshua vs. Usyk is good too but I think we both believe Usyk has a better chance versus Wilder.

That's what I thought I saw, that his case wasn't bad. In the same vein, Canelo has had Smith on his radar for a while now, he's likely going to be just as if not more prepared for Smith than vice versa.

Probably not, Hunter is crafty and it wouldn't surprise me if Whyte gassed himself trying to take Hunter out. I agree, Hunter vs. Hrgovic makes a lot of sense for both of them, hopefully, they can get the money right on it to make it happen.

Did you see the rumor about Casimero vs. Rigondeaux? Could be an interesting fight, I thought Rigondeaux was totally finished until he just decided to flip the switch and start boxing Solis like he would normally. Yeah, he's definitely declined but his legs didn't look finished. I think Casimero will win because he'll be able to wear the aged Rigondeaux down but Casimero's defense leaves something to be desired. It wouldn't surprise me if Rigondeaux caught Casimero and sparked him. He's definitely still a strong puncher and the size will be interesting given Casimero has come up in weight and Rigondeaux came down.

Champion97's picture

We do, but on the basis that Joshua would beat Usyk and beat him well based on the Chisora fight, I think it would build the Fury fight, I just think it makes more sense for the top 2 not to fight first, and realistically, given Usyk has headlined 2 Matchroom PPV cards, is obviously the easiest for Hearn to negotiate with of the 3 opponents, and Wilder and Fury have this mediation, Joshua and Fury not fighting next is more likely.

I think he's more prepared for Smith than he has been for other opponents, I know he called out Smith at least 2 years ago, but Smith will have been watching Canelo and studying his style for longer, I suppose most of Canelo's opponents did, but Smith's own brother has fought Canelo, he was in camp with him when he was preparing for Canelo tactically, so I don't agree Canelo will be more prepared than Smith.

He gassed against Joshua and Parker, but even if he doesn't gas, I just don't think he's a methodical finisher, can't find a balance between getting reckless and letting the opponent off the hook. I'd be surprised if they didn't, they both need a fight, Babic is fighting on bigger cards than Hrgovic, Hrgovic should take this fight even if it's high risk, I think Hunter might have the beating of Hrgovic, but Hrgovic can definitely hurt him, is well schooled, and I think he will transition well to the professionals, I've seen him do damage on the inside.

No I didn't, I agree with everything you say there, but it's worth noting, Solis was not only nowhere near the level of Rigondeaux in terms of technical skill, but he was even older, he didn't have the 12 rounds in the tank, so Rigondeaux's legs weren't tested, but he isn't shot, doesn't have a lot of miles, very few for how many times he's been dropped, the knockdowns were mostly isolated, but I think Casimero has too much for him.

Have you seen Tishchenko fight?

Gold's picture

I think if the mediation goes in Fury's favor they will make Joshua vs. Fury because it's a massive fight, there were mixed reviews from what I saw on if Wilder vs. Fury II was financially successful or not. I think Joshua is more competitive versus Fury than Wilder and we haven't seen it yet so that's why I'd prefer it.

I see what you mean, but I think it's different and advantageous for Canelo because he's more likely to be able to execute on the flaws of Smith than vice versa. I also think that he's improved since the Liam Smith fight, but that's not as big of a factor. What do you think of people discrediting the fight because it's on relatively short notice? I know Smith said it wasn't ideal but he's been in the gym and prepared because he knew the fight could be coming up so I don't really buy into it.

Yeah, but Babic is fighting Tom Little and will be fed to another Matchroom heavyweight. I'd argue he's not a legitimate heavyweight at any level above a domestic guy like Little either. Babic talks trash and I don't think Hrgovic does or would, seems like a quiet and reserved type of guy from the little bit I saw of him. I buy into that some people don't want to face Hrgovic, it's high risk and low reward. I think Hrgovic should take the fight if it's offered, big chance for him to put himself into a good contender position and as you said, he's not getting younger. The problem with Hrgovic is he's too stiff, not a fluid puncher and looks like he could get caught, but he certainly has the skills you mentioned.

I agree, that's why I think Casimero will win, he'll be able to up the pace, Rigondeaux won't be able to keep it at his preferred very low output. It's an interesting enough fight though to be intriguing.

I haven't, I don't know what the general thought is on him as a professional is either. He's not young so they'll have to move him relatively quickly but that's easier to do if he's fighting at cruiserweight. Perhaps he will become a bridgerweight champion lol.

Have you seen what Bob has been saying about Crawford? Unacceptable to talk about his own guy like that, he's gone off the rails. Not every fighter can or will be a mega PPV star like Bob is implying Crawford should and Crawford has done better numbers than guys Bob has suggested he acts like. Crawford delivers in the ring and he can sell, his fights have done good ratings and he sells well at home. Bob put too much into hyping a fighter that would never sell PPVs in Lomachenko and didn't match Crawford well. Crawford vs. Thurman for example is PPV level and would likely be a good or very good fight but they didn't want to take a chance on it. Hopefully, they will have some mediation and will go their separate ways instead of waiting out Crawford's contract (ends in November supposedly) because their relationship is finished. Time for Crawford to go to PBC and hopefully they won't waste time over there.

Champion97's picture

I could see the negotiations starting if the mediation goes in Fury's favour, but let's not put the cart before the horse, because Hearn runs a tight ship financially, it wouldn't shock me if we saw the fight next, but I'm not getting my hopes up. I wouldn't rather see Fury vs Wilder again, I just think Joshua and Fury are the top 2, but I think Joshua vs Fury should happen next, we've talked about the drop after 'the big 3', but I don't think Wilder is amongst Joshua and Fury now, I wouldn't mind seeing Usyk fight the winner.

I agree, if for no other reason, because of the experience of Canelo. They have a point given what's at stake for Canelo, and it being the fight of Smith's life, but they both live the life, the fight has been on the cards for while, I agree with on it, I've heard people discredit the fight because of Smith's last fight, I don't agree with it, I think Ryder is very underrated, I'd be 90% sure he'd beat Saunders given how much more consistent he's been.

Tom Little is popular, Babic is getting more recognition than Hrgovic, is fighting on PPV bills, and is having more of a reputation build amongst casual fans. I agree he's high risk, low reward, that's why I think he needs the Hunter fight. I'd have to watch more of Hrgovic, but it would be interesting to see how he'd deal with the movement of Hunter.

I saw him on the Makabu vs Kudryashov under card, I was very impressive by him, has a similar style to Lomachenko and Usyk, but seems to hit harder.

I've heard he's said something which has caused controversy, but I haven't heard what. I'm shocked about that, I didn't see that coming. I agree on all that, I don't see what Crawford could do differently, it's how he's been matched, a promoter can blame the fighter when he doesn't train hard enough, loses a fight he shouldn't, but it's Arum's responsibility to get Crawford the big fights. If he goes to PBC, I don't think his resume will be questioned for much longer, the only reason anyone can conceivably argue Crawford has ducked, is to argue he shouldn't have signed the contract with Top Rank. The only problem with Crawford leaving Arum is the winner of Taylor vs Ramirez won't be as easy to make if the winner moves up.

Gold's picture

Yeah, but there aren't significant obstacles to Joshua vs. Fury and it makes the most money, so if they can target it for the summer that would be a good time frame to do so. That's interesting you'd say that, I know you've favored Wilder against Joshua in the past, do you think it's just that Wilder is mentally finished? What made you change your mind?

Saunders vs. Ryder would be an interesting fight, I kind of doubt Saunders would take it given it's a challenging fight. I would pick Ryder as well, I know Saunders can fight to the level of his opposition but I've been very unimpressed with him at 168.

I didn't know that about Little, I'll be pulling for him versus Babic personally. Babic has a low ceiling in my opinion though, he's an undercard fighter. Did you see Yoka vs. the Croatian Milas went through a purse bid? That could be an interesting fight between two prospects.

I'd have to watch that, I'm sure he will be on some other Russian cards soon though.

I didn't expect it would deteriorate in such a quick and public fashion like it has. That's the one negative, I don't think he will stick around for Taylor vs. Ramirez. It wouldn't surprise me if that was Crawford's last fight with Top Rank given how public the disagreement has become, but he has much better options at PBC.

Even with this week being disappointing we have a lot of good fights coming up in December, wouldn't have expected that at the beginning of the pandemic.

Champion97's picture

I don't know enough about the negotiation process to know if there are any obstacles. I have, and I still think Joshua has a good style for Wilder, but I think Wilder is finished, I don't often take anything from what a fighter says when I judge how good they are, but Wilder's behaviour is concerning if you are a Wilder fan, he still has the weakest resume of the 3, has the one sided loss he likely can't avenge, so for me, it isn't a case there being a big 3 and then a drop off, but I think now, Wilder wouldn't be able to finish Joshua because Joshua would be more strategic, he would use the ring, out jab Wilder, the fight would take more out of Wilder, Joshua wouldn't stand in the pocket, wouldn't oblige Wilder. Do you think Wilder would beat Joshua now?

I don't think it will, my point was that Ryder is underrated. I agree, and I think his best win against Andy Lee was exaggerated based on how low his output was, I think Saunders is very similar to Broner.

He's popular for the same reason as Dave Allen is, his personality is more of a factor that what we've seen of him in the ring. I'm more sold on Babic than you are, based on the Winters fight, but I agree there's only so far he'll go. No, I added Yoka vs Hammer yesterday, I didn't know Yoka vs Milas was going to a purse bid?

It wouldn't surprise me either, Arum has been trying to get himself out of the hole he's dug himself into, saying Crawford would beat Spence like he beat Brook.

Definitely man, looking forward to Canelo vs Smith, Ilunga vs Kuzminm, and the bill on the 5th.

Gold's picture

I think it would be a case of a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush for Joshua vs. Fury, it's a risk to "marinate" a fight, sometimes it will end up overmarinated and spoiled like Gamboa vs. JuanMa. I think Wilder can beat Joshua for the same reasons as before. I don't think Joshua would want to box Wilder on the outside for too long like you are saying and the Fury rematch is a good reason why. I think Joshua would beat Wilder because of everything that happened with Wilder recently outside of the ring, but I think it should be noted that Wilder could be deluded enough where it doesn't impact his confidence (at least when he's facing a non-Fury opponent), and he's a similar fighter to before.

I can see the comparison between Saunders and Broner, not one you'd expect.

Apparently, they are targeting Yoka vs. Milas after Yoka vs. Hammer.

I saw they have Cissokho on the undercard of Joshua vs. Pulev as well versus a seemingly decent level opponent, should be interesting to see where he's at. Bakole vs. Kuzmin will be an interesting fight, seems like a mix of seemingly interesting and bad fights on the Joshua vs. Pulev card.

Champion97's picture

It's the best fight at heavyweight, so I think the winner would get an easier fight against the winner of a hypothetical Wilder vs Usyk fight, that's all I was saying, I agree there is no need to marinate the fight, especially if Joshua makes a statement against Pulev. I think Joshua is more versatile than that, his uppercut against Klitschko was on the inside as the uppercut is when it's taught, he has more of an inside game than Wilder. I don't agree on that about Wilder's mentality, I think whether you have a realistic mindset or not, it will damage you mentally take a loss as one sided as Wilder's against Fury, and I think it was a mentally more damaging loss than Joshua's against Ruiz, at least Joshua knew he could hurt and out box Ruiz, Wilder might not have taken as much damage physically, but it's very demoralising when you have no success and are never in the fight, I don't think Wilder has any tactical discipline, won't make adjustments, the fight is unlikely, but I think Joshua would stop Wilder now.

Good fight, Yoka has been impressive in his last 2 fights, I don't know much about Milas, I'll have to watch him fight if the Yoka fight is confirmed.

I saw that, Conway is a good step up for him, drew against Cheeseman, I'd say he's decent at European level, Cissokho was a good amateur, seems to have adapted well to the professionals.

Gold's picture

What I'm saying is that if someone is realistic it may be more damaging, but perhaps not to someone who is deluded. I don't know if that's Wilder's case. It seems like it may not be, but it's possible that if he has generated all of these excuses and believes he was cheated, perhaps he won't be as effected by it.

Do you guys get the Jacobs vs. Rosado card? I think I'll catch it but I don't know if I'll give it full attention.

Champion97's picture

I see what you mean, time will tell, assuming he doesn't retire, which I doubt he will.

No it isn't, which is disappointing, and I'm not paying the ridiculous price for Dubois vs Joyce either, assuming it's the same month subscription deal, I'm just looking forward to seeing the Spence vs Garcia card live, great card, I think Ceja vs Ramirez, Lopez vs Santana, are interesting fights. I take it you're not particularly interested in Jacobs vs Rosado?

Gold's picture

I actually saw someone say the opposite lol, that the Spence vs. Garcia undercard was terrible. I think the fights you mentioned could be interesting but in terms of name-value or relevance, they definitely don't hit the mark, especially as a PPV.

I'm not really, I will probably watch it I'm probably more interested in Yeleussinov vs. Indongo and Majidov.

beaunuitmem's picture

11-1 is only possible if you watched the fight with your eyes closed. Loma clearly won 7,8,10 & 11. I thought Lopez won the fight but to say Loma hasn't taken risks is a bizarre statement to make about a guy that is the quickest 3 weight world champion in history.

Gold's picture

He didn't clearly win round 7, if you think 119-109 is watching with your eyes closed, 114-114 or Lomachenko win is deaf, dumb, and blind. Kosei Tanaka tied him to quickest 3 weight champion and could beat him to quickest 4 weight champion, how impressed are you with his resume? Put it this way, Lomachenko fans bang on about being the quickest 3 weight champion but it's not just about winning titles, it's about who he beats and how. Lomachenko's best win is Gary Russell Jr, who is a good champion but not a great one. Lomachenko's strength of schedule is not poor but it is not great either. Great fighters have great wins, Lomachenko doesn't. I think Lomachenko is a HoF fighter but he didn't want to take a big chance with the Pacquiao fight when they were both at TR. He took the franchise belt instead of fighting Haney. He strategically managed his career to the Lopez fight after he took a chance with Salido and lost, which is fine and his own prerogative, he's done well for himself doing so, but he never deserved the ridiculous comparisons his fans and media fans made for him.

beaunuitmem's picture

He clearly won round 7; not wide but he clearly won. Maybe even 6, almost gave it a draw. Agree with you about round 2 though.
Strategically manouevered his career to an undisputed shot against a fighter of equivalent ability? Coward! Been ducking fights his whole career by moving from one unification to the next.

Gold's picture

Lomachenko did not win round 6, he was still woefully inactive, and he likely did not win round 7, again, still too inactive. Look at who Lomachenko beat and how instead of just the titles. He has never been in a 50/50 or close to 50/50 fight in his career, he was a 4 to 1 favorite or more versus Lopez. The fight arguably wasn't undisputed because he took the franchise instead of fighting Haney. His best win is Gary Russell. Hardly the mark of an all-time fighter he was made out to be by his fans.

beaunuitmem's picture

He's been asking for the top figters since he became pro and he conquered his weight class and the weight above in 11 fights. He's been fighting much bigger guys since linares, Pedraza was a fairly close fight until the knock downs. He's not a Mayweather type who actively avoided fighters at the top of their game.
We can debate a lot of things but 119-109 isn't one of them. A heavy bias or heavy eyelids were required to get there.

Gold's picture

As I said he didn't want the Pacquiao fight when they were both at TR, would have been a huge fight for him. Linares and Pedraza are B level guys, the best guy Lomachenko beat is a B+ at best in Gary Russell. He has never beat an A level guy, he arguably lost to the two best fighters he faced. Floyd beat what would be Loma's best in Genaro Hernandez to win his first title and beat Corrales before the age Loma even turned pro. No comparison between Mayweather and Lomachenko. Mayweather is much better and faced much better opposition.

Julio Cesar Chavez Sr said the same thing I'm saying on a Mexican TV interview, that he didn't believe in the Lomachenko myth and his resume was overrated.

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