Big Baby pops for PEDs

Submitted by SalTnutZ1 on Tue, 2019-04-16 18:59

Per ESPN, Big Baby Miller has allegedly failed a drug test, from a March 20th sample. His fight with AJ is now in doubt, as securing an opponent for AJs US debut, with such short notice, may prove very difficult.

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Addi_Bomaye's picture

Addi_Bomaye

Wed, 2019-04-17 03:52

I never really was suspicious about Miller being a cheat or anything, but it makes sense. The drug he tested positive for turns fat into energy, and honestly that exposes him pretty badly. Really dissappointed in him and now I can’t look at his fights the same anymore

SalTnutZ1's picture

SalTnutZ1

Wed, 2019-04-17 13:53

He popped when he was kickboxing, back in 2014 I believe. So I’m not terribly shocked due to that, but can’t believe he let his biggest fight and payday as a Boxer go down the tubes.

Addi_Bomaye's picture

Addi_Bomaye

Wed, 2019-04-17 03:52

I never really was suspicious about Miller being a cheat or anything, but it makes sense. The drug he tested positive for turns fat into energy, and honestly that exposes him pretty badly. Really dissappointed in him and now I can’t look at his fights the same anymore

Gold's picture

Gold

Wed, 2019-04-17 04:01

Miller was never going to be a legitimate challenge to Joshua, so I'm not really disappointed he is out. Any high profile replacements people want aren't going to happen though, it will likely be someone such as Michael Hunter given that it is on short notice.

Champion97's picture

Champion97

Wed, 2019-04-17 04:07

Miller was going to be a challenge for Joshua, shame he failed a test. Hunter would be a good replacement.

Gold's picture

Gold

Wed, 2019-04-17 05:23

.

Gold's picture

Gold

Wed, 2019-04-17 04:23

You are entitled to your opinion, but you don't have to reply to me. I am not going to argue over this.

Champion97's picture

Champion97

Wed, 2019-04-17 04:32

Good, so get off your high horse and don't state your opinions like they're fact.

Gold's picture

Gold

Wed, 2019-04-17 04:40

Do not comment on my posts anymore.

Champion97's picture

Champion97

Wed, 2019-04-17 04:31

It's all just speculation, which is why you shouldn't go around saying Miller wasn't going to challenge Joshua like it is fact, when all it is, is an opinion. Nobody thought obesity was an advantage, he was not obese, that was another exaggeration by you, but the drug he was taking explains why he was in that shape going into that fight.

Gold's picture

Gold

Wed, 2019-04-17 05:23

.

Champion97's picture

Champion97

Wed, 2019-04-17 04:47

There is no burden of proof. He was not obese, like saying someone has dwarfism at 5'0. Miller was overweight, and the drug he was taking might explain why.

Fighters turn down fights all the time, he didn't want to go to Bulgaria to fight Pulev, not the only fighter who wouldn't do that, should he have taken it?, probably.

One thing we will agree on, is that Miller did not deserve the shot, whether he is good enough or not, he should have gotten a top 10 win first, like Whyte did against Parker.

Gold's picture

Gold

Wed, 2019-04-17 05:23

.

Champion97's picture

Champion97

Wed, 2019-04-17 04:55

No. Miller is an unbeaten heavyweight who has still been dominant enough at the level he has been fighting at, beat maybe a couple of top 30 heavyweights, dominant enough that there is a strong case to be made that he would beat a top 10 fighter.

Extremely unlikely Miller is the best in his division, I never said he was, also extremely unlikely he is just a gimmick and isn't top 15, what is unknowable, very unpredictable is whereabouts Miller is at between 4th and probably 10th, the Joshua fight would have given us a good idea, but it is highly likely he is amongst Whyte, Ortiz, etc, but not top 3.

This is not about rolling the dice and just saying Miller is good or not good with nothing to go on, it about being either more impressed with his strengths or more unimpressed with his weaknesses. I am very impressed by Miller's ability to use his strength and break down his opponent, he is a good pressure fighter, good body puncher, good jab, and he is unorthodox, hard to prepare for, but he is also not a big puncher, slow, sloppy feet, and whichever way you look at it, his lack of pedigree would have hurt him against Joshua.

Gold's picture

Gold

Wed, 2019-04-17 04:59

I'm not going to have another long protracted argument, if you could, would you please delete this discussion. Thanks.

Champion97's picture

Champion97

Wed, 2019-04-17 05:00

I understand that, health and fitness are related, but not the same thing, the best athletes in the world aren't necessarily the healthiest often aren't, I am not saying Miller is healthy, not saying it wasn't suspicious him putting on fat, he was an overweight fighter, but obese people are heavier than that, we can't know for sure, but it seems likely Miller has enough muscle not to be obese, but was using that drug to use fat as energy.

Champion97's picture

Champion97

Wed, 2019-04-17 04:36

Miller had a good chance to challenge Joshua.

Addi_Bomaye's picture

Addi_Bomaye

Wed, 2019-04-17 04:16

Don’t know why that posted twice ^

Gold's picture

Gold

Wed, 2019-04-17 06:27

Apparently, Charr is in the mix for this fight which would be a terrible mismatch. Hunter seems like a great fight in comparison.

SalTnutZ1's picture

SalTnutZ1

Wed, 2019-04-17 14:01

I like Hunter as a replacement as well, as Whyte, Ortiz, or a long shot of Wlad were all unlikely, but were the only other viable options that people could buy as a competitive fight

SalTnutZ1's picture

SalTnutZ1

Wed, 2019-04-17 15:12

Also hearing somethings about Ivan Dychko as a possible opponent. He has history with AJ as an amateur, has decent development as a pro, and is a very big, yet agile fighter. Not quite Fury in terms of movement, but about as close as you can get.

SalTnutZ1's picture

SalTnutZ1

Fri, 2019-04-19 15:53

Second failed test for Miller reported, this one for HGH, so he’s out. Announcement supposed to come mid next week.

Edit: now a third test for EPO...holy shit, how much was he pumping into himself leading into this fight?

Gold's picture

Gold

Sat, 2019-04-20 05:57

He also tested positive as a kickboxer, so I don't think it would be a stretch to say he likely he was on EPO for his previous fights as well and is a career cheater. It would explain his ridiculous motor for his size. He is going to get a big ban for this, and he deserves what he gets.

SalTnutZ1's picture

SalTnutZ1

Sat, 2019-04-20 06:02

I remember that. It was around the time of one of the Cro Cop fights.

I wouldn’t be shocked if that was the case. Had seen pics recently of the team he was working with...all those dudes had bigger biceps than their heads and looked like every juice monster I seem in the gym, and that is always a big give away.

I wouldn’t be surprised if he got a big ban. WBC proposed lifetime of Povetkin if I remember right, but didn’t keep it in place. Teper popped for a cocktail of drugs as well, and only sat a year, but that was European commissions, so we'll see how it goes.

Gold's picture

Gold

Sat, 2019-04-20 06:15

It was the CSAC that suspended him, I don't know if NYSAC will take that into consideration but it could be a really big ban for him if they do.

Was that when he was working with AKA in the early stages of his camp? A lot of people have accused people from there of using steroids, and that is what people accused TJ Dillashaw of as well. Once one guy knows how to dope effectively and beat the testing, they teach the other people in the gym.

Gold's picture

Gold

Sat, 2019-04-20 06:16

As an aside, it is clear that there are ways to beat VADA testing (which USADA uses) through cycling. There is no doubt that guys like Paulo Costa are juicing.

SalTnutZ1's picture

SalTnutZ1

Sat, 2019-04-20 06:21

I believe so. And I know. It was like the late 80s A’s with Mac and Canseco, and that late 90s-early 00s Mariners, where like half team popped within 5 years. These tricks usually taint entire gyms/orgs.

https://twitter.com/afowler06/status/1119590972508332034?s=21 Miller’s S&C coaches...tells you a lot.

SalTnutZ1's picture

SalTnutZ1

Sat, 2019-04-20 06:03

TJ Dillashaw got a 2 year ban in the UFC for EPO alone, so I feel that, plus whatever they’d give him for the HGH and other drugs is appropriate.

Gold's picture

Gold

Sat, 2019-04-20 06:10

Agreed, but the ban was handed down by USADA to Dillashaw right? In this case, NYSAC will be handing down the ban to Miller which other athletic commissions will follow, so it may be different.

SalTnutZ1's picture

SalTnutZ1

Sat, 2019-04-20 06:24

It was. But I’d think they’d want to set an example. California and New York should lead the way given the size of their states, economies, and their involvement in combat sports, and having so many of the biggest events staged in their cities. They could lead the way, and work with USADA, and the MMA orgs, and different sanctioning bodies to create concrete standards, but they likely won’t, so we’ll see what type of ban he gets.

Gold's picture

Gold

Sat, 2019-04-20 07:37

Agreed completely.

Champion97's picture

Champion97

Sat, 2019-04-20 08:16

What percentage of the top 100 boxers are taking something do you think? Gold or SalTnutZ1.

I think one way or another, people are mislead, one minute, boxing people talk about drug cheats like they are scum, have the intentions of murderers, next minute, other people are defending Miller, because they think most fighters are drug cheats.

SalTnutZ1's picture

SalTnutZ1

Sat, 2019-04-20 08:48

Well, you know my stance of drugs in combat sports. I think you fail, you should suffer severe consequences, but I know I’m in the minority overall. I feel the same about those who fail in American Football, but they tend to not suffer in terms of the league sanctioning them harshly, even though it is one of the most brutal sports on your body and life as well. It’s suickening. I’d hate to speculate on how many, but it’s more than we’d like to think, and probably guys we all like a lot. I know there was always a lot of smoke around Holyfield, Manny, Mosley, Roy Jones, etc. In the States, we saw it across Baseball, where half(at least) the league was doing it, and nearly everyone from that era is looked at with suspicion and don’t get recognized as all-time greats, and have even been blackballed out of the sport and Hall of Fame. And since they officially put real penalties in place, like 3 strikes and you’re out policies, it seemingly has slowed down. But the testers are always going to be chasing the cheats, as the cheats usually are way ahead of the testers.

Gold's picture

Gold

Sat, 2019-04-20 09:01

Almost all are likely doping somehow, but I do not have any hard evidence to back that up. As I have stated before, doping is a cat and mouse game, so it is easier to dope than to catch dopers. For me, if someone on VADA, it creates a level playing field of sorts to limit what is possible (however it is limited by the difference of funding each boxer theoretically has to dope with). If someone can pass that, I won't accuse them. However, something like EPO is really aggressive and won't pass VADA if they test for it, and that is where I draw the line (which has to be drawn somewhere). So Miller deserves what he gets in punishment from the NYSAC. In my interpretation, if people in boxing really cared about making the sport 100% clean, people like Memo Heredia and Victor Conte who without a doubt have ties to doping would be blacklisted, but they are obviously not.

SalTnutZ1's picture

SalTnutZ1

Sat, 2019-04-20 09:09

For sure. Conte and Balco nearly killed the MLB. Him and SNAC near Boxing will always make me nervous.

Champion97's picture

Champion97

Sat, 2019-04-20 11:29

I don't know whether to trust Conte, a leopard can change it's spots, but I don't know.

SalTnutZ1's picture

SalTnutZ1

Sat, 2019-04-20 11:46

For sure it can, but, he got his foot in the door with baseball atheletes in a similar fashion. Started pretty legit for most part, and eventually was the biggest drug peddler in American sports. He was linked to Mosley, Barry Bonds, Gary Sheffield, and many more Baseball players, Olympians, and Boxers. I’ll always have a suspicious eye toward him. .

Champion97's picture

Champion97

Sat, 2019-04-20 11:31

So what your saying is, you suspect someone if they are not enrolled in testing programs like VADA?

SalTnutZ1's picture

SalTnutZ1

Sat, 2019-04-20 11:42

I’d say it is helpful in at least ruling out rampant use when a fighter is enrolled. Nothing is guaranteed either way, of course.

Gold's picture

Gold

Sat, 2019-04-20 11:47

It is just a warning flag, and someone being on VADA doesn't mean they are clean either, just that they aren't doping in a way that would be detected by VADA.

Champion97's picture

Champion97

Sat, 2019-04-20 11:35

One thing we should consider is technically legal substances, not every effective PED is illegal, and that's what happened to Povetkin, he failed a test not when he started taking a certain substance but when it was out lawed.

SalTnutZ1's picture

SalTnutZ1

Sat, 2019-04-20 11:42

But, didn’t he pop again after for a different substance, too?

Champion97's picture

Champion97

Sat, 2019-04-20 11:45

I don't know, but if he did, was that another technically legal PED?

SalTnutZ1's picture

SalTnutZ1

Sat, 2019-04-20 11:57

Against Stiverne, it was Ostarine, which was banned since 2008 as far as I know. I could be wrong, but that was the other one I remember that wasn’t the Meldonium.

Gold's picture

Gold

Sat, 2019-04-20 11:54

Are you thinking of Whyte's PED suspension?

Champion97's picture

Champion97

Sun, 2020-06-28 11:10

Miller has failed another test, over a year later, delaying his return even more. Miller is a mug.

Gold's picture

Gold

Sun, 2020-06-28 13:12

He should 100% be banned for life given how many times he's popped across his combat sports career (5 times if I remember correctly) but I doubt he will be because he wasn't licensed the last time he popped. I hope the major promoters blacklist him, it is obvious how he was able to keep such a pace at his weight now.

Champion97's picture

Champion97

Sun, 2020-06-28 15:42

I agree, he will be remembered as something of a hype job even if a lot of people were never sold on him, he'd have been better off being hyped up and well beaten, his reputation is worse as a fighter who squandered his own chance for us to find out how good he was, all mouth and no trousers, it would be sad if it was an injury or illness, but it's his own fault. Miller will struggle now, I've not known any fighter fail as many as five tests, what a mug. I reckon Miller thought he had a better chance of getting away with it with covid and it being harder to test fighters, from what I've read, it was the same or a similar substance to at least one of the ones he tested positive for last year, so if he thought he was going to be tested, I don't think even he would have taken a substance he knew would be found on the test.