Eleider Alvarez vs Sergey Kovalev II

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Eleider Alvarez vs Sergey Kovalev II
Fan Rating: 
0
Your rating: None
3.53846
Average: 3.5 (13 votes)

Date: 
Saturday, February 2, 2019
Location: 
Ford Center at The Star, Frisco, Texas, USA
Rounds Scheduled: 
12
Contracted Weight: 
175
Titles at Stake: 
WBO Light Heavyweight World Title (Alvarez's 1st defence)
Referee: 
Luis Pabon

Official Judging
Lisa Giampa 108 - 120
Jesse Reyes 112 - 116
Levi Martinez 112 - 116

More:






Averaged Fan Card:

round 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
Eleider Alvarez
                                                                    
9.23
9
9.26
9
9
9.07
9.50
9.11
9
9
9.46
9
Sergey Kovalev
                                                                    
9.76
10
9.73
10
10
9.92
9.53
9.88
10
10
9.53
10


Fan Cards: Eleider Alvarez vs Sergey Kovalev II


scorecard by GUY INCOGNITO
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
ELEIDER ALVAREZ
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
108
SERGEY KOVALEV
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
120


scorecard by POWERPUNCHER999
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
ELEIDER ALVAREZ
9
9
10
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
10
9
110
SERGEY KOVALEV
10
10
9
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
9
10
118


scorecard by STINGEV98
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
ELEIDER ALVAREZ
9
9
10
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
109
SERGEY KOVALEV
10
10
9
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
119


scorecard by ONLY1
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
ELEIDER ALVAREZ
10
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
109
SERGEY KOVALEV
9
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
119


scorecard by MICHAELJORDAN061498
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
ELEIDER ALVAREZ
10
9
10
9
9
9
10
9
9
9
10
9
112
SERGEY KOVALEV
9
10
9
10
10
10
9
10
10
10
9
10
116


scorecard by CHAMPION97
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
ELEIDER ALVAREZ
9
9
9
9
9
9
10
9
9
9
10
9
110
SERGEY KOVALEV
10
10
10
10
10
10
9
10
10
10
9
10
118


scorecard by MARTIN EDEN
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
ELEIDER ALVAREZ
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
108
SERGEY KOVALEV
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
120


scorecard by FLOYD TOUGH COMPETITOR MAYWEATHER
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
ELEIDER ALVAREZ
9
9
10
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
109
SERGEY KOVALEV
10
10
9
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
119


scorecard by NF82
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
ELEIDER ALVAREZ
9
9
9
9
9
9
10
9
9
9
10
9
110
SERGEY KOVALEV
10
10
10
10
10
10
9
10
10
10
9
10
118


scorecard by ARJ GUY
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
ELEIDER ALVAREZ
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
108
SERGEY KOVALEV
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
120


scorecard by GOOSU
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
ELEIDER ALVAREZ
9
9
9
9
9
9
10
9
9
9
10
9
110
SERGEY KOVALEV
10
10
10
10
10
10
9
10
10
10
9
10
118


scorecard by THEICEMANJDOG
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
ELEIDER ALVAREZ
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
108
SERGEY KOVALEV
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
120


scorecard by MATCHROOM
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
ELEIDER ALVAREZ
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
108
SERGEY KOVALEV
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
120


scorecard by MINIMAXBOXING
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
ELEIDER ALVAREZ
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
10
9
9
9
9
109
SERGEY KOVALEV
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
9
10
10
10
10
119


scorecard by OTURN10
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
ELEIDER ALVAREZ
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
108
SERGEY KOVALEV
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
120


scorecard by NOCTISSOLID
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
ELEIDER ALVAREZ
10
9
9
9
9
9
10
9
9
9
10
9
111
SERGEY KOVALEV
9
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
9
10
118


scorecard by THEALTERPLACE
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
ELEIDER ALVAREZ
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
10
9
109
SERGEY KOVALEV
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
9
10
119


scorecard by PETIEROACH
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
ELEIDER ALVAREZ
9
9
10
9
9
9
10
9
9
9
10
9
111
SERGEY KOVALEV
10
10
9
10
10
10
9
10
10
10
9
10
117


scorecard by GOLD
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
ELEIDER ALVAREZ
9
9
10
9
9
9
10
9
9
9
10
9
111
SERGEY KOVALEV
10
10
9
10
10
10
9
10
10
10
9
10
117


scorecard by HAGLERGOAT
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
ELEIDER ALVAREZ
9
9
9
9
9
10
10
9
9
9
9
9
110
SERGEY KOVALEV
10
10
10
10
10
9
9
10
10
10
10
10
118


scorecard by STEVEKRAZY
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
ELEIDER ALVAREZ
10
9
9
9
9
9
10
9
9
9
10
9
111
SERGEY KOVALEV
9
10
10
10
10
10
9
10
10
10
9
10
117


scorecard by MCPHILLY84
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
ELEIDER ALVAREZ
10
9
9
9
9
9
10
10
9
9
9
9
111
SERGEY KOVALEV
9
10
10
10
10
10
9
9
10
10
10
10
117


scorecard by JSNULL
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
ELEIDER ALVAREZ
10
9
9
9
9
9
10
10
9
9
10
9
112
SERGEY KOVALEV
9
10
10
10
10
10
9
9
10
10
9
10
116


scorecard by TJK146114
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
ELEIDER ALVAREZ
9
9
9
9
9
9
10
9
9
9
10
9
110
SERGEY KOVALEV
10
10
10
10
10
10
9
10
10
10
9
10
118


scorecard by SALTNUTZ1
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
ELEIDER ALVAREZ
9
9
10
9
9
10
10
9
9
9
9
9
111
SERGEY KOVALEV
10
10
9
10
10
9
9
10
10
10
10
10
117


scorecard by BOXING KNOWLEDGE
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
ELEIDER ALVAREZ
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
9
108
SERGEY KOVALEV
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
120


Comments

Champion97's picture

Prediction,

Great rematch, Kovalev was the A-side, the favourite, the first time, he deserves the rematch. Alvarez proved himself at world level the first time, he moved well, worked the body, didn't get intimated and let Kovalev work at a slow pace, and when Kovalev punched himself out, Alvarez was able to make him pay and then some, staggered him, sustained his attack, and had the output, power, finishing ability, to get the stoppage.

I think the biggest aspect is timing, in terms of how this fight differs from the first fight, I think it is only the beating that Kovalev took last time, the mental and physical damage, and the confidence, momentum it must have given Alvarez, that makes this fight different to the first fight. Kovalev is just slightly older than Alvarez, Alvarez doesn't have a lot of time himself, but Alvarez is much fresher, and Kovalev took a heck of a lot more damage in their fight than Alvarez did, so in terms of who is or isn't declining, or who is declining faster than who, you would have to say the timing benefits Alvarez.

Provided Alvarez doesn't get complacent, doesn't forget at all how dangerous and experienced Kovalev is, I think he wins again, and I think he wins earlier and with less difficulty than the first time. I don't think Kovalev can win this if Alvarez is at his best, he hits very hard, a very dangerous puncher always has a chance, just because Alvarez held up last time doesn't mean Kovalev can't do more damage if the right shot lands, and he can definitely hurt Alvarez, but Alvarez has a much better chin than Kovalev, is far more resilient. I think Kovalev's punch resistance will be significantly weaker this time.

I think Alvarez stops Kovalev in 4 rounds. If this fight goes the way I think it will, I think Kovalev should and will retire. I think Alvarez, late next year, should be in a unification fight.

That was a beautiful boxing clinic put on by Kovalev. He showed remarkable discipline throughout balanced with a high work rate, consistent jab and a tough chin.

Alvarez flashed the overhand right early and did not seem to have much more tonight. I think Alvarez is better than this. When he brought the left hook he caught Kovalev, but he was not prepared for 12 rounds of boxing.

Gvozdyk is the only one at 175 who gives this version of Kovalev a loss - I think he decisions Bivol, stops Beterbiev.

I wish we had seen more pressure from Alvarez, but Kovalev made it happen and is a 3 time world champion. Let's hope he lives cleanly, stays with McGirt and brings us a good unification battle later this year.

Always liked Buddy Mcgirt as a trainer and he seems to get a raw deal after 2003. Never understood why, glad to see him get the props he deserves. Lots of great fights can be made at 175. Great performance by Kovalev. If his legal problems get solved I would love to see him in there with Beterbiev or Gvozdyk. Beterbiev has the power but is flawed from his inactivity...would make a fun fight

I thought it was disrespectful how a lot of the people thought coming in to this fight his only use would be to wave the white flag. Hope to see him get plenty of props and credit for this in a similar way to Atlas(who also had a lot of people doubting him). Perfect gameplan drawn up for Kovalev by Mcgirt, and he really did seem in much better shape this time around.

good prediction!

Matchroom's picture

Brilliant performance by Kovalev complete shutout, can't believe a boxer as good as Alvarez with maybe the best jab in the business spent the entire fight looking for a one punch KO. He barley threw 300 punches in 12 rounds.

Agreed - what was his game plan, one punch KO with the same move that won the first fight?

I put this loss on Alvarez's trainers, they were totally unprepared for a fit and focused Kovalev and had no game plan to adapt or make changes in the fight.

It's no the fauls of alvarez corner it's his fault he didin't follow the intructions

Gold's picture

What was Marc Ramsay telling him to do that he wasn't doing?

he told him to work in combinations to counter with his right when kovalev throw the left and to stop step back

Gold's picture

Kovalev is going to fight Yarde next as the mandatory lol. If this Kovalev shows up Yarde is going to get wrecked

yarde has a fight before to be mandatory

Gold's picture

Amar isn't going to win

that's your opinion

Gold's picture

Amar is brought in to be an opponent and nothing more. Amar is not that bad and can go rounds which is what Yarde needs, but Warren didn't bring him in to potentially beat Yarde. These promoters understand matchmaking. I'm sure you can get great betting odds on Amar if you really think he will win.

I think this will be a close fight

MINIMaxBOXING's picture

Kovalev looked great last night. The guy who does the best against Sergey is Bivol.

Gold's picture

Bivol can push the pace on Kovalev which Alvarez failed to do. I don't think he would beat Gvozdyk but I would favor him versus Beterbiev. That would be a good grudge match too given their history.

MINIMaxBOXING's picture

Good point, If Gvozdyk fights the way Alvarez did in the 1st fight, he could definitely win. He has more handspeed, power, and boxing IQ than Alvarez.

MINIMaxBOXING's picture

Good point, If Gvozdyk fights the way Alvarez did in the 1st fight, he could definitely win. He has more handspeed, power, and boxing IQ than Alvarez.

great fight by kovalev

Champion97's picture

Not sure what was more of a factor, brilliant adjustments made by Kovalev and McGirt, or the terrible performance, complacency of Alvarez. Kovalev did very well there, he looked gassed in rounds 6 and 7, he struggled to find a second wind, he will always have stamina issues, but he was able to keep backing Alvarez up, didn't need to carry his power into the late rounds, was able to rest at times, Alvarez couldn't force him to work at a high pace, and as the fight went on, Alvarez tired as much if not more than Kovalev, becauseof all the energy sapping punches he'd taken, even got hurt a couple of times late on, because his resistance wasn't what it was earlier in the fight.

I think Kovalev trained harder than Alvarez, has probably been living the life ever since their first fight, Alvarez took Kovalev lightly, underestimated him, and he should be kicking himself for that, because he is capable of a lot better, if he has learned from this fight, how good Kovalev is, wants it bad enough, he should press for the trilogy, but if he isn't to train a lot harder and take Kovalev a lot more seriously in a third fight, he shouldn't bother.

I don't think Kovalev beats Bivol, Gvozdyk would be a good fight (a lot of people rate him top, but I didn't see his fight against Stevenson), Beterbiev is a monster puncher with amateur pedigree and is fresher than Kovalev, but he is also chinny, and less experienced than Kovalev, Browne has the potential to give Kovalev a lot of trouble, could beat him, possibly, but I could see Kovalev's jab, ability to keep the fight range, being a nightmare for Browne, and he's another fighter who has been down twice, doesn't want to take one on the chin from Kovalev.

Buddy McGirt is a trainer of the year candidate.

alvarez was at the level I expeted from him

Gold's picture

The sixth and seventh were good rounds for Kovalev, he threw higher than his average in the sixth and threw his most punches in the fight in the seventh. He took off part of the sixth but he was in no way gassing because Alvarez wasn't pushing him. He had no issues finding a second wind, because like you said, Alvarez didn't push him. Kovalev threw over 800 punches which is extremely good for someone who has as notable stamina issues as he has. He was able to do the veteran move of taking off a minute or so of a round when he needed it but was still able to win the rounds. So I think we should ask why Alvarez didn't push him, I think it was in part because he was as surprised as everyone else was that Kovalev boxed him so well and was able to keep up the pace. Were you impressed by Kovalev's boxing? To me this was everything I was saying he could do in the past and more, his distance management was great and his jab was really nice. Alvarez had a lot of trouble getting started because Kovalev wasn't there to be hit in many instances, especially in combinations.

This may be one of the only times where someone saying they were overtrained was actually true. His stamina and punch resistance looked a lot better in this fight. Kovalev is 35 years old, he doesn't need a long training camp, McGirt was proven to be 100% right in just having Kovalev take it back to basics and win using his skills. I don't think it was that Alvarez was undertrained, but that Kovalev caught Alvarez off guard and by the time he realized it, the fight had already slipped away because Alvarez wasn't able to go to the body early. I would be very surprised if there was a trilogy unless the WBO mandates it, which I doubt they will considering they have already made Yarde vs. Amar for the mandatory. It really does seem like the first fight was a fluke to me and that Kovalev is the better fighter. Kovalev can fight Yarde and then cash a big payday in a unification.

Kovalev and Beterbiev fought twice in the amateurs and a considerable amount of people think Kovalev was robbed in those fights. That would be a really good grudge match. You should watch Gvozdyk vs. Stevenson even with the knowledge Stevenson gets seriously hurt in the fight, it is a competitive and entertaining fight. Any fight of Kovalev versus a competitive opponent would be great though, it will be interesting to see if he can keep up this disciplined style.

Champion97's picture

He was tiring, but he was able to rest, because as you said, Alvarez wasn't pushing him, and he kept the punches going without putting everything into them. Yes, exactly, I think Buddy McGirt gave him the right advice in terms of how to do the rounds. I don't know, I think he underestimated Kovalev's variety, I think he relied on Kovalev having bad stamina. I think there was a real lack of body work from Alvarez as well, Kovalev took less punches tha he used to taking early, that was a factor. Very impresed, at the end of the day, I said a loss in 4 rounds, he won a wide UD, so that alone is impressive, but yes I was impressed. He overwhlmed Alvarez with his combinations, and as you said, his jab, also, it is one thing to look at a fighter throwing punches, think it looks tiring, and think the guy not throwing is taking it steady, but it is draining when you take that many clean punches to head and body, and that's why Alvarez was so tired late in the fight, missing punches is more tiring than landing punches, taking punches is more tiring than missing punches, what Kovalev did most was land punches, what Alvarez did the most was take punches.

I don't know about his punch resistance, it looked to me more like he was briefly hurt, but Alvarez couldn't build on it, and in general, he didn't take much. I think he was under trained physically, a little bit, but think a bigger factor was lack of tactical preparation, he underestimated Kovalev, got complacent, very easily done, I think Joshua deserves a lot of credit for not under estimating opponents, when it would be very easy to, same with Canelo, same with Crawford. No I don't think there will be either.

Yarde vs Amar is a good match up, Amar proved in the Gvozdyk's fight he can go 12 rounds, mix it and put up a good effort. Let's not look past Yarde, he is unbeaten, is very dominant, no amateur pedigree, is unproven, poor resume, I understand that these are signs there is a smaller chance he is good than if he had good amateur pedigree and had fought better opponents, he still might be a good world level fighter who just has a lot to learn, might be another hype job, but he has to get past Amar first.

I know they fought in the amateurs, I didn't mention that because it shouldn't mean anything now. I might do at some stage, but I don't know, Gvozdyk proved me wrong, stopped Stevenson, don't really need to see the fight to rate him high, but I might see the fight at some point. Definitely, with his power alone he makes a fight interesting, but now he has made some changes, stopped making mistakes he used to make, he has helped himself as a fighter, and McGirt as well, a great trainer.

Gold's picture

Just saying that a tiring or gassing fighter doesn't throw the most punches they threw in the fight. I was impressed by Kovalev's variety as well. Alvarez's high guard style can block a few punches but it isn't going to block all of them, so Kovalev's combination punching got punches through to Alvarez. Alvarez wasn't in range to go to the body for most of the fight, but he also didn't take a lot of risks to try to. Alvarez was actually landing at a good connect rate, but he wasn't doing anywhere near enough. Alvarez has a good chin but like you said, taking all of those shots from Kovalev must be extremely draining.

I remember one point where it seemed like he was stunned, I don't remember which round though. Overall, he got hit by a few overhand rights that sent him down in the first fight and stayed there. That is true, all of those guys show up in peak physical condition which is impressive.

Yarde is a hype job in my opinion. I know he is with Warren so he doesn't get as much hype as if he was with Matchroom, but is he really hyped at all in the UK by anyone other than Warren? As you said he has no amateur background and started relatively late which shows, he looks stiff and slow. It is very difficult to overcome a lack of amateur experience and a late start. Amar is a tough guy but he is old and lacks skills and power, so it makes sense why Yarde is fighting him. Is Amar really that much better than Sjekloca though? Yarde just hasn't been moved up levels well enough to make the jump to Kovalev after Amar. It would be shocking if Yarde beat Kovalev with an absolutely massive disadvantage in experience and eye test. It would be Kovalev's 16th consecutive world title fight and Yarde's best opponent to date would be Amar or Sjekloca.

It doesn't, it just adds intrigue to the fight. According to Boxingscene Kovalev has a multi-fight deal with ESPN, so we will likely see him versus Beterbiev or Gvozdyk after the mandatory is fulfilled if they can't get an exception for the mandatory to step aside. McGirt will definitely be getting more calls and opportunities after how well he turned Kovalev around.

Champion58's picture
Champion97's picture

Computer was logged into my dad's account.

Good point actually, those SHOULD have been clear Alvarez rounds because he hurt Kovalev, and not 2 of the 3 rounds in the fight that I found hard to score, which they were. I think it was round 8 that he really started to tire, but let's be honest, Kovalev throwing late on was because Alvarez didn't force the pace, but still, his stamina in this fight is a testament to how stamina isn't usually so much a natural thing (don't misunderstand me, I understand that there is an aspect of natural stamina, especially if you are of african descent), but more something that depends on how hard you work, and a good trainer who understands how to help a fighter train 100% without 'over training' (I think that is in part, to do with a lack of rehydration, recovery, also, knowing how to ease off with hardcore sparring for an old fighter), is important. I know, but with his granite chin, he should have taken risks, walked through fire much earlier than he eventually tried to, there was a lack of head movement, which meant that Kovalev could jab with ease.

I think it's his survival skill being better than it used to be, I think keeping the punches going, stopping Alvarez in his tracks, smothering his attacks, better than trying to hold on.

Not really, a little bit, but Warren is not good at building fighters' profiles. Look how long it has taken Warren to get Nicola Adams a world title shot, Hearn is a much, much better promoter in my opinion.

He is a great athlete, but he isn't used to doing the rounds at anything other than his own pace, he did stop that guy who went 12 with Callum Smith and other fighters, but he was moving up in weight, and apart from that, I see no impressive wins for Yarde. I agree he looks stiff, he works the body well, has power and applies pressure, but he has also fought opponents who haven't tested his ability to box for 3 minutes, and his defence looks poor, his footwork as well, not the worst, but I don't think he can box on the back foot. Yarde may well be a hype job, we will see. No he isn't, but he is more used to fighting at this weight. I don't think it would happen, Yarde might be that good, but at the very least, he has a lot to learn, his chin hasn't really been tested, I think Kovalev would have too much for him, that jab, ability to push Yarde back (and that alone stops Yarde fighting the only style of fight I've seen from him), I don't see Yarde dealing with that. I'm much more impressed by Joshua Buatsi than Yarde. In the UK, in my opinion, the best propsects are Buatsi, Anthony Fowler, Jordan Gill, Josh Kelly.

He did a great job with Lipinets as well, Lipinets didn't beat Mikey, but he won 3 or 4 rounds, better than I expected from him.

Gold's picture

The problem is that when Alvarez did something good, he just got outworked for the rest of the round. I don't think it is one or the other that Kovalev's boxing was 100% why Alvarez didn't throw or that Alvarez's poor gameplan was 100% why he didn't throw, it is likely a combination of both. Kovalev is the most dangerous in the early rounds and Alvarez didn't want to overcommit, but once Kovalev didn't tire and kept boxing him, he was screwed because he was too far behind. Stamina can definitely be affected by training. I would be careful saying things like that, I know your intention isn't to be discriminatory but there aren't significant physiological advantages one race has over another. It is mostly cultural things such as running being ingrained into the culture and elevation that makes certain countries and regions better at stamina/long distance running. That alongside non-race specific things like thin and tall builds contribute to good stamina. McGirt said in an interview he would tell Kovalev he's done for the day and stay at the gym until Kovalev left to stop him from overworking himself, so a lot of credit goes to McGirt and Kovalev's strength trainer for his improved conditioning. I agree, I think he would do things differently if he fought again, but he may very well get stopped if he is more aggressive. Punches he caught on the gloves would start to land flush and Kovalev is a heavy-handed puncher.

Amar is out now and Travis Reeves is in. I've never watched Reeves but based on his record it should be an easier fight. I agree that Kovalev forcing him to fight off the back foot, using his movement, jabs, and combinations would be way too much for him. I think Kovalev will stop Yarde in mid rounds, but Yarde's chin is untested so it is hard to say how much damage he can take. I think Buatsi is probably the best British prospect as well, but I don't watch enough to say how I rank all of them.

I agree Lipinets did a better job than I thought as well.

Champion97's picture

Sorry, just to be clear, I said, mostly, stamina is not something you blessed with, stamina is not talent, stamina is about working hard, and Kovalev's stamina is a testament to that. But, I'm stating, not a scientific fact, but a likely scientific theory, not my theory, an old theory that seems to be the case, that black people often have a stamina advantage, there is not an element of discrimination in that, not at all, just like saying the average man is stronger than the average woman is not sexist. I am well aware that the biggest advantage is the Kenyans who are born at altitude, but put it this way, if you are of Asian descent, you are likely to be shorter than a lot of people. Obviously, stamina is about being light, I know that first hand, I've worked myself extremely light, doing long distance running. Also, it is easy to forget, Alvarez is not a young fighter himself, and whilst miles are a big factor, so is age on it's own, and for age, he is not much younger than Kovalev. I think with over training, it isn't that fighters push themselves too hard, because for hardcore training to be effective, you have to grit out a lot of gruelling, torturous sessions at the gym, but it is timing, the trainer knowing when to tell the fighter to rest and recover, when sparring should be at it's hardest, how to manage the weight, all these aspects, because Kovalev won't have trained less hard for the Alvarez rematch, just been helped by a trainer who knows what he's talking about, so he can train hard without 'over training', like Groves, he looked terrible against Douglin, poor against Rebrasse, not at his best against Jack, after he had started training with McGuigan, he won't have taken it easy, trained less hard, just had the right amount of recovery time, done everything right.

It is up to you, it depends on how much free time you have, but you might find domestic level boxing more entertaining if you watch more fights.

Hopefully Beterbiev vs Barrera happens next, you think Barrera by KO?

Gold's picture

Eh, its like anything else, some people have more natural talent than others and some people can reach higher peaks than others, but no one can have great stamina without working, and Kovalev did do that this camp. I can link you to some academic articles saying otherwise if you'd like. The reality of the situation is that race as it is commonly used to describe people is not an actual thing, and the perceived differences/advantages are because of environmental differences rather than biological differences. You are right, Alvarez is not young but ring age is more important than biological age. Kovalev is an old fighter in terms of ring age and an older fighter in terms of biological age, while Alvarez is not an older fighter in terms of ring age but is an older fighter in terms of biological age. He could have overtrained himself but it is not something I heard anyone mention about Alvarez in this fight. It seemed like the main mistakes were tactical, relying too much on knocking Kovalev out and banking on Kovalev not improving physically and mentally.

Probably, they just don't have the excitement for me. If I have nothing to do I will watch them but that seldom happens. I try to catch the big prospects on undercards but that doesn't always happen. Did you see that the WBA ordered Roman vs. Ahkmadaliev? It will be going to a purse bid tomorrow unless something has changed. I am surprised they have moved Ahkmadaliev up so quickly. I don't think Roman is all that good but going from Zarate to Roman is a pretty big jump.

It should happen, I think Beterbiev is the rightful favorite, Barrera has a questionable chin and got dominated by Bivol. However, he has good skills and could box Beterbiev who is relatively slow, has bad head movement, and a questionable chin. I'll probably pick Barrera to pull the upset by the decision.

Champion97's picture

It isn't just environmental, it is also biological, but less so, a Kenyan who is born at altitude has a much bigger advantage than someone of African descent but born in the UK, it is not 50/50, and I am not saying that Usyk and Lomachencko don't have better stamina than Floyd Mayweather as he is now, but a black person born where ever, is likely to have a biological advantage, not that much, but a lot of scientists have said there is truth in it, but I'm not saying it is a big factor in boxing. The fact that you told me to be careful what I say shows just how over sensitive people are these days, I know you aren't taking what I said the wrong way, but what I said is not racist in the slightest bit.

I don't know, I think ring age does more to your resistance, reflexes, how your body holds up against the general wear and tear of the sport, but I think stamina, recovery (from exertion rather than being hurt), speed, the legs, agility, I think these aspects are more affected by age, tough to say which is more improtant, but I think it is easier to suffer from ring age for a few reasons. I am not saying miles take nothing away from recovery from exertion, agility, and I am not saying simple age takes notning away from your resilience and how well your body deals with wear and tear, but I get the sense that biological age limits what you can put your own body through more than anything else, and miles lessen what you can withstand from you're opponent more than anything else. I would rather be old and fresh than young and have suffered 20 knockdowns, been in 10 damaging fights, 8 stoppage losses.

Alvarez relied on Kovalev's own pace tiring him out, and he allowed him to control the pace, you can't give a fighter with the experience of Kovalev that kind of leverage, and he should have tried harder to make Kovalev work at a pace he didn't want to work at.

No I didn't hear that. I think Roman is good, I have been impressed by his last two performances, but McDonnell might not be as good as he seemed against Yafai and Hall, still. 122 is not on a high, that's for sure.

Gold's picture

Here is a brief published academic article by a graduate researcher regarding this issue, I can find more if you would like: https://scholarworks.wmich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1027&context=...

I don't know man, Bernard Hopkins had good stamina, recovery, speed, legs, and agility into his late 40's. Especially in the modern day, ring age seems to be more important. In earlier eras, fighters were finished by Kovalev's age but 35 is not really that old anymore for a Light Heavyweight.

I think his strategy to take it easy the first few rounds was completely fine. That is when Kovalev is the most dangerous regardless of if he has the stamina to go the distance or not. If he would have taken more risks he may have been dropped or stopped, so they went with the more conservative gameplan but once it got to the middle rounds and Kovalev was still there with the same output, the fight became unwinnable for him.

I think Roman will beat Doheny but Super Bantamweight is very poor. Roman did not become the titlist in a legitimate fashion, he was upgraded to the full title after the WBA unrightfully stripped Rigondeaux. I hope Akhmadaliev wins because it would breathe some new life into the division.

Champion97's picture

I believed you before you tried to prove what you were saying, but different academics are contracting each other all the time when it comes to topics like this. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.si.com/...

There was a study from Western Michigan university, calling it a myth, there will have been studies from different universities arguing the opposite.

For the record, the thing I am best at, is long distance running, without a shadow of a doubt, so I understand full well that stamina is about working hard.

True, but part of that was his opposition declining, he beat Pavlik, made it close against Calzaghe, in his early 40's, beat an also past prime Jones, but after that, he was phenomenal for his age, but he was still slower, less agile than earlier in his career, part of that was the weight, but also, he knew exactly when to move up. Hopkins was outstanding in terms of aging well, but in general, I've seen fighters lose agility, speed, recovery from exertion, from age, and miles lessen a fighters ability to hold up against wear and tear, Luis Ortiz for example, fresh for his age, against Wilder, his reflexes were good, he is more active now than he has been in years, when he was hurt, he recovered fairly well, but in the Wilder fight, his lack of foot speed was apparent, and once he had emptied that tank, that minute did almost nothing for his recovery, if he had been 5 years younger, he would have recovered better.

For a light heavyweight, it is probably the start of old, not very old, and fighters decline slowly, a lot more slowly than they used to, agreed.

I understand, and he was right to respect Kovalev's power even though he took it well in the first fight, but he should have found that balance between being cautious, and letting Kovalev work at his own pace, also, in rounds 6 and 7 I thought, bht definitely round 8, Kovalev was blowing a gasket, Alvarez just would not let his hands go, like I said, he has taken a lot of energy sapping punches, but I just think he froze, and his corner didn't really know what to tell him.

Agree. What did you think of Rigondeaux's last performance? I was surprised to see him change his attitude like that, this late in his career, I know he is training with Ronnie Shields now, but Rigondeaux fought with a different style, was willing to take a few clean punches at the advantage of getting his opponent out of there earlier.

Gold's picture

That article is from 1997 and it is from SI, which is not a bad source for information, but it is just a commentary on what some scientists thought at the time. As the article says, that field didn't have a lot of development at the time and now we know that it isn't true. You won't find current studies saying that there are physiological advantages because it isn't true.

Didn't surprise me really, the guy Rigondeaux was facing was bad. I didn't really see a lot of stylistic change, but the opponent wasn't good enough to push him and the fight only lasted one round. I still have him as a favorite over any Super Bantamweight, to be honest.

Champion97's picture

I could, I mean, to be fair, that isn't the best argument either of us can make, there is a fitness book called 'eat bacon, don't jog', written by Grant Peiterson, absolute nonsense, there are studies saying broccoli has no health benefits, there are studies contradicting each other all the time. Do believe in Asian metabolism?, do you believe in anything else directly related to genetic advantages? To say black people do or don't have some level of athleticism advantage depends on who you believe.https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://theconversat...

I could find more, but this is going nowhere, if you believe in genetic strengths, you can't say it is definitely false, all you can do is agree with one group of scientists and not another.

I saw him fight more aggressively than I've ever seen him fight before, rarely does Rigondeaux choose to walk through a few punches for the advantage of doing more damage early, he rarely fights with any argency at all, against Delgado, I thought he was more aggressive, and less of a perfectionist when it came to not taking a single shot.

How high do you rate Menayothin?

Gold's picture

That is not an academic source though, for something to be published in an academic journal it has to be peer-reviewed and vetted. Read the article you just posted "There is some evidence that the typical body type of East African distance runners – with long, slender legs – may contribute to an increased efficiency in these athletes, particularly at race pace. Yet the overall findings of these research studies have not identified genetic traits that could conclusively explain the success of East African distance runners." The author states that body type, environment, altitude, and cultural reasons as to why Kenyans have had success in running. This is exactly the argument I was making earlier.

This is also the worst opponent Rigondeaux has faced in a long time. He blew out Flores and Dickens in similar fashion in recent times. No one at Super Bantamweight is aligned with PBC so I don't really know who he is going to fight. Perhaps Narvarette? I don't know if Top Rank has options on him.

Don't rate anyone at all at Minimumweight, it is extremely thin. The best fighters at Minimumweight leave the division for more difficult fights, Gonzalez did it, Nietes did it, and now Tanaka is doing it.

MINIMaxBOXING's picture

Quick question: How do you make your own profile picture?

Champion97's picture

Go to your profile page, go to Edit, click Choose file, and select a picture in your files

MINIMaxBOXING's picture