Sun, 2018-07-22 09:25
I think this was a good learning experience for Munguia to go the distance with an experienced fighter in Smith. Munguia was more hittable than I expected but I don't think he really respected Smith's power. Smith was really tough though, Munguia showed a great motor and won clearly behind his power punching. I think Hurd would beat Munguia at this point but it would be a really great fight. I'd definitely like to see Munguia again regardless of who he fights.
Sun, 2018-07-22 09:33
Yeah, I think he was a bit weight drained, too. Which is good that he was still able to keep a good motor on spite of it, but you could see him dip toward the end. I wonder how much longer he can make that cut, especially with him ballooning over 20lbs every time. I don't think he respected Smith's power either. Munguia has always been susceptible to the overhand right, and we saw that last night, but Smith didn't have enough behind it to make him worry. Munguia I think will always "defend" a bit with his chin, and rolling the punches. He will never be a great defender, and I don't know if he'll need to be. He will need to tighten his shots up as he moves up. Seems as if he may have hurt his hand/wrist mid rounds, so I wonder if that affected his power late, as I saw him messing with it over the back half of the fight. This was a great fight though, and gave the kid some necessary seasoning.
Sun, 2018-07-22 09:50
Good points, I wasn't paying enough attention to notice Munguia's hand I guess. If his chin really is that good it isn't the end of the world that he blocks some punches with his chin, it's just like you said he can't take a lot of big overhand punches on the chin because that will cost him versus Charlo and Hurd. He really needs to keep making 154 for as long as possible because that belt is his big ticket right now. If he doesn't think he can make it much longer he should try to force a unification with Hurd or Charlo before moving up.
Sun, 2018-07-22 10:33
Not worth it, move up, take your time, develop, and work towards another world title, if he fights Hurd or Charlo, he's in trouble I think.
Sun, 2018-07-22 10:46
If he fights Hurd or Charlo and loses, so what? He gets a really big paycheck that he wouldn't get if he vacated, exposure from being in a big fight, and experience. He will get a high six-figure payday if he fought one of them on Showtime which would take him many non-title fights at Middleweight to make.
Sun, 2018-07-22 10:59
So he gets beaten up, gets sparked, or battered, and he picks up a lot of miles. Not worth the money, he'll make money, but making big bucks is not something anyone needs in a hurry. He already has a lot of exposure, he is getting more and more well known fight by fight, let him gt his reputation, let the unification fights get built up. He could make that in a few years at 160, if he was 28, and Smith was the 5th good opponent he'd beaten, I'd agree, but there is no hurry at all. How many non-title fights would he have at 160, a world champion who moves up often gets a world title fight very quickly, and belts aside, look at Broner vs Garcia, Parker vs Whyte, Haye vs Bellew, Jacobs vs Sulecki, Alvarez vs Khan, not every big fight whoch could even be PPV is a world title fight, if Munguia moves up, and fights Andrade, Derevyanchenko, when maybe none of are world champions and the belts are not vacant, that's not world title fight, bit tickets will be sold, don't worry about that.
Sun, 2018-07-22 13:08
First of all, Munguia's style is always going to put miles on him, same with Hurd's. It is very rare a fighter becomes shot on one fight, especially at such a young age. In boxing, it is good to take the money opportunities while they are still there, ask Adrien Broner about that when he could have signed with Roc Nation. To say he has a lot of exposure, I don't know if that is really true, he is headlining HBO cards but if you ask casual boxing fans they likely have no idea who Jaime Munguia is. I'm not sure how known he is in Mexico though which is very important. If he has the chance to make what he could make if he wins out at 160 in a few non-title bouts in one title bout at 154 that could give him a lot of exposure, he should take the 154 title bout. All of those guys you listed except for Jacobs vs. Sulecki and Parker vs. Whyte (to an extent) have good fan bases and sell fights. Jaime Munguia at this point of his career is not that guy. The Middleweight division is in gridlock right now because of Canelo and Golovkin, everyone wants to fight one of those two guys and so there aren't a lot of good, competitive contender matches happening that you are proposing.
Sun, 2018-07-22 14:07
Didn't say he would be shot. There is a difference between taking a lot of punches, like Golovkin, Prograis, Hurd, Ritson, Wilder, difference between that, and being overmatched, rushed, and in against a fully grown fighter when you haven't reached your ultimate weight, and are basically still a youth, that is very dangerous, and his handlers shouldn't do it, it's a fight he isn't ready for, and a fight which he wouldn't only take a lot of hurtful punches in, but a fight he would take damage in, just think about it, you get dropped, dropped again, and again, you get battered, that is not a fighter taking punches because's he fights like a Golovkin or Hurd. Why do you think Jurgen Braehmer pulled out Zeuge in round 5? Because in boxing, a beating can lessen a fighter, do serious damage to a fighter.
Casual boxing fans might not know Teofimo Lopez, Lewis Ritson, they might have just heard if Usyk, Inoue, wait, be patient, it's just irrational to put a timer on publicity, it is not the most important thing, getting something, now!, which you could get in a few years, is not worth taking a possibly career damaging beating for, and putting a 21 year old who is not in his own real weight class yet, in against full matured fighters like Hurd and Charlo, who might be as good as Munguia will ever be, that's a beating waiting to happen, it is reckless, and stupid, Munguia should never fight that Charlo or Hurd, Canelo? Maybe, Jermall, Uzcategui, Ramirez, Smith, Benavidez?, these guys, maybe, future 160 and 168lb world champions? Why not?, but he is too big for 154, 6'0 is tall for the weight and definitely tall enough for 160, he is still growing, let him move up, learn, and then, when he is ready, then he should be in unification fights.
But he's not ready, it is as simple as that, waiting isn't ideal, but you have to do it, otherwise you bite off more than you can chew, and this is boxing we are talking about, it is so obvious, it's just stupid and not worth it, he has more than enough time to work his way towards unification fights, publicity, money, all that, at 160, 168, and that is time he would be very unwise not to use.
He's 21, what do you expect, he's done well to even have enough of a reputation that we are having a discussion about his career, he has just defended his world title, people are talking about him, as you said, he was prospect of the year, he beat the guy who beat Cotto, he has a reputation now, people pay to watch him fight.
It can only be gridlocked belt wise, because this was my very points, meaningful fights aren't always world title fights, often, but not always, and world title fights aren't always meaningful fights, often, but not always. GGG vs Canelo is doesn't stop Jermall Charlo vs Munguia, Andrade vs Munguia from being great fights which generate publicity and are good earners.
Above all, it doesn't matter what either of us think, read Liam Smith's take on Munguia, and I'm done with this discussion, and will be annoyed if you question Smith's knowledge or opinion on Munguia, because he knows more than two of us put together, he is the only one who just went 12 rounds against Munguia.
Sun, 2018-07-22 14:32
Would he really be that overmatched versus Hurd or Charlo? Munguia at this point would be Hurd's second or third best opponent and arguably Charlo's best opponent. Munguia beat Smith easily, didn't stop him or shut him out but he kept it in gear and controlled the fight. Smith is not a great fighter but he isn't a bum either, Smith would be a good win for Hurd or Charlo too. Munguia is not Erickson Lubin, he wouldn't get destroyed by Charlo or Hurd.
It is important to take advantage of opportunities while they are there. Most fighters have a short window to make big paydays if they have a window at all. Again, I highly doubt Munguia would take a "possibly career-damaging beating" you are claiming while you also said you didn't think Munguia would be shot. I think it would be fine if he fought Charlo or Hurd in the next year personally. If he can make 154 with little issues he should because that's where he has the greatest paydays available and physical advantages.
As I said before, he would be one of Hurd or Charlo's best opponents at this point even though he isn't at his peak yet. Having boring protected careers avoiding taking risks is not interesting. He could have the opportunities at 154, so if he does get them he should take them.
I don't expect Munguia to have a massive fanbase at this point, but we should be realistic about what he is today in evaluating him. He is growing in reputation but he isn't getting the paychecks that guys like Hurd and Charlo are getting for a reason.
It is gridlocked right now because no one wants to risk losing a shot at Canelo or Golovkin. If you believe otherwise, where are the competitive non-title bouts at Middleweight? They simply have not and are not happening.
What an unbelievably bitter and whiney take by Liam Smith, he lost 9 rounds and got knocked down, if that is "not much better" than Smith is delusional. Munguia showed he is much better than Smith, there isn't a lot of speculation to do there. Smith may very well be right that Munguia doesn't have as good of power as Canelo, but they fight in very different styles, doesn't mean Munguia isn't a top Super Welterweight because a top fighter like Canelo could punch better than him.
Sun, 2018-07-22 14:45
Well put it this way, there is one bitter and whiney person around here, and that is you, learn from a boxer, a former world champion. Smith gave Munguia credit, wished him well, he admitted Munguia was better, was realistic, you are upset, and BITTER because the best person to ask doesn't back up what you say.
You say things to make them suit you a lot, very convenient, always the sign of someone who likes the sound of their own voice, and isn't as knowledgeable as they think they are.
Jacobs vs Derevyanchenko, Saunders vs Andrade, there will be more. Half the belts are vacant or owned by another champion, so the division is not controlled by GGG and Canelo.
Munguia is earning more than Hurd and Charlo when they were his age.
Sun, 2018-07-22 14:57
If Smith wasn't a British boxer you wouldn't be arguing that, facts are that Smith wasn't in the running to win the fight after the first few rounds, Munguia took control and won clearly. If Munguia wasn't much better he wouldn't have been able to do that.
I say things that are backed up by fact, not in the fantasy of Smith nearly being as good as Munguia when he lost clearly and was knocked down.
Jacobs vs. Derevyanchenko is for a belt, Saunders vs. Andrade isn't happening. Saunders will only fight bums until he gets a shot at Canelo or Golovkin.
Munguia got his career accelerated by taking a chance and fighting Ali on short notice. There isn't a guarantee that he will have the same or greater opportunities in the future, so he should at least consider taking another risk and fighting Hurd or Charlo, getting a lot of exposure, money and a chance to become a top fighter.
Sun, 2018-07-22 15:08
My favourite boxers are Mikey Garcia, Errol Spence, people I don't like in boxing, Eubank Jr, Galahad, Fury, Patel, Whyte, Davies, Warrington, Saunders, Khan. Don't accuse me of bias.
Sun, 2018-07-22 15:15
Right but you also make excuses for Bellew, Smith, etc. Guys from England. All of the guys you listed you don't like from the UK are all big talkers while Garcia and Spence aren't.
Sun, 2018-07-22 15:22
You make excuses for Pacquiao, we can all look at it that way. I defend Bellew and Smith when you don't give them fair credit.
I will talk to you about another topic. But not this.
What do you think of the WBSS season 2 line-up?
I just added all the fights if you don't know the line-up yet.
Sun, 2018-07-22 15:46
Don't really have to make excuses for an eight weight, ten-time world champion. His resume speaks for itself.
The Bantamweight tournament is more interesting, but the first rounds aren't that good. Burnett should beat Donaire easily, Donaire is going to be weight drained and is shot. Inoue should beat Payano easily but Payano is the best opponent he could have chose. Tete should beat Aloyan easily who is not ready for this level of opposition. Rodriguez vs. Moloney is probably the closest matchup out of all of them in the first round. Once they get past the first round though all of the fights should be interesting. I think Inoue will win without much trouble, he is just a cut above really.
I'm not very well educated on some of the Super Lightweight fighters but fights with Prograis, Relikh, and Taylor should be the most interesting ones. It's just not very intriguing with only two belts on the line and one being from a vacant championship. Maybe I'll be surprised though.
Sun, 2018-07-22 16:00
2011 Donaire vs. current Inoue would be such an incredible fight though, really a shame something like that couldn't happen for this tournament.
Sun, 2018-07-22 16:03
It should be great, Inoue might win, but don't write Tete off, don't write anyone off, especially not Tete, but Inoue is a heavy favourite I would assume, and there can be no complaints, but don't expect him to have an easy time when he competition moves forward.
Relikh has over achieved, he will try, it will be interesting to see how much success he has, Baranchyk vs Yigit is brilliant. It is a shame Ramirez isn't involved, I think he is the best in the division, but he is fighting Orozco, which is a good match up. Surprised Flanagan is involved, I don't see him doing well against Prograis, but I might be wrong.
Sun, 2018-07-22 16:24
Arum just doesn't want to put his guys in these tournaments for whatever reason. I've heard Baranchyk is quite good but I've never seen him so I'm looking forward to that matchup as well.
Sun, 2018-07-22 14:59
Just because a loss doesn't ruin you like Wilder ruined Stiverne, doesn't mean you won't carry damage you shouldn't have had to take, through your career.
Boring protected careers? Stop being an idiot, that's not what I said at all, I said Munguia could and should be in unification fights at 24, just at a higher weight class, a unification fight always earns you a lot of money, and fighters relish what they do, it is not all about money, it seems like you are making this very one sided like you always do. Munguia might well get opportunities in the future to make more money than he would make against Charlo and Hurd.
I don't think you know much about this particular topic. A young fighter, at 21, is more likely to get seriously hurt than a 28 year old fighter, and a lot of it is a fighter who doesn't have his man strength fighting a guy who does, and in his predominant weight class. Munguia would have a lot to lose, a lot of reason to be kept in the fight, the harder he tried, the more openings there would be for Hurd or Charlo. A young, dominant fighter doesn't have a great deal of knowledge of how to keep himself safe, there are reasons why fighters have to be readh before taking fights, forget extra money and luxaries, this is a combat sport!
Lubin was a great amateur, unbeaten, doing great, 21, and look what happened against Charlo, now that shot did damage to the kid, not saying Munguia isn't better than Lubin currently and potentially, but the scenarios are similar, and that is a good example.
I'm not wasting any more time on this stupid discussion.
Sun, 2018-07-22 15:12
Wilder and Stiverne isn't really relevant to this discussion, Munguia would be taking a risk versus Hurd or Charlo but it is not a fight where he can't win or have success. Any fighter can take damage they shouldn't have taken versus any opponent.
He would be having a boring protected career if he vacated his title and moved up because no one at Middleweight is going to get in competitive non-title fights unless they have to because the Canelo/Golovkin sweepstakes exists. Munguia may very well get more opportunities to make more money than he would versus Hurd or Charlo, but Hurd and Charlo are there now in reality. It isn't a "what if" like if he vacated and moved to Cruiserweight. Jermall Charlo hasn't fought anyone good at Middleweight after vacating and moving up because he is in the sweepstakes.
Munguia is one of the best fighters at Super Welterweight regardless of if he has a lot of experience or not. He has got some experience now beating Smith widely, a top 10 boxer at Super Welterweight. Munguia has very little to lose fighting Hurd or Charlo, if he is getting busted up his corner should pull him out and he can move up to Middleweight. Plenty of world level fighters have gotten by with blocking some punches with their chins, Froch certainly did for example. Not exactly ideal but it can work if needed. Munguia is still a big guy, has a good motor and good power, he is a top fighter at Super Welterweight. Boxers should take the big money opportunities while they have them in the sport so they can have a good retirement.
Munguia isn't Erickson Lubin, Lubin had beat essentially no one and was thrown into a fight with Charlo. The scenarios aren't similar at all given Munguia went twelve championship rounds versus Smith.
He really needs to keep making 154 for as long as possible because that belt is his big ticket right now. If he doesn't think he can make it much longer he should try to force a unification with Hurd or Charlo before moving up.
That's a terrible mistake!, in my opinion.
Sun, 2018-07-22 12:03
Yeah, I saw him tinker with his hand a few times after round 6 or so, and didn't think much of it, until I noticed it a few more times. Didn't know what was up for sure or if I was just seeing something that wasn't there, but then even Max asked him about hurting it, and I believe he said in Spanish, that it was little hurt, but nothing bad.
Not trying to make any excuse for him not finishing Smith, but just something I noticed, and wonder if it was something serious. He said no, but with young guys, you just never know if it is bravado or not.
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