Fri, 2018-07-20 12:41
I think Smith will do better against Munguia, but I think it will finish earlier because Smith having more success himself will come at a price.
Fri, 2018-07-20 12:45
Champ, you see Munguia calling for a unification with Hurd?
Fri, 2018-07-20 12:54
Yes, but I also see Mikey calling out Spence, Robert won't let that happen, Ryan Garcia's handlers are stupid if they let the kid near Davis. Munguia will call Hurd out, course he will, young fighters are full of confidence, believe they can beat anyone, but it is the responsibility of their handlers, not to let a 21 year old with all but one of his foghts against non-title, low level opposition, not to let him in against guys in their prime who are years ahead, because that's asking for a loss, Munguia has potential, he can be a unified champion, but let's calm down, let him learn, let him defend the title he already has, let him adapt to fighting guys of the calibre of Trout, Lara, before he fights Hurd and Charlo, I mean, Lubin was the same, 21, young, unbeaten, looked unstoppable against Cota, Lora, etc, probably would have been able to do a number on Ali, but look what happened to the kid when he fought Charlo, far too early.
Fri, 2018-07-20 18:24
I think Smith can have some success but the performances versus Liam Williams don't exactly give me a lot to be optimistic about. Munguia likely has some learning to do but he is a very good talent. I think Munguia will likely step on the gas more quickly than Canelo did like you said, I don't think Canelo respected Smith's power but was more methodical and broke him down with a body attack. I definitely don't think Munguia will respect Smith's power and will go after him early. If Munguia can get an early KO I think that will really get people interested in seeing him in a unification.
Fri, 2018-07-20 13:08
I think Mikey Garcia is more trying to hype his name, and less serious about fighting guys as big as Spence, unless there is just not other big money fight out there. Ryan Garcia sparring with Davis would be great, as I've seen them talking about, but I agree, letting him fight him at this stage would be bad. I'd like to see Garcia vs. Tanajara Jr. at some point, but Golden Boy won't let their 2 best prospects at the weight battle it out, though it would be a very interesting clash of styles. As far as Munguia, he is one of two young fighters that I think could accelerate their time line significantly due to their talent, Teofimo Lopez being the other. I know Munguia is looking for those big fights at 154 now, as he is already stretching to make the weight, his team has said as much, and he had a number of fights at 160 already, so his body is ready for the move. And against Hurd, who I think has overrated punching power and himself only has 3 world level fights, I think Munguia wins that fight, even if it was his next one. Charlo is more dangerous of the two, as he'd fight Munguia in a way where Munguia would have to pursue and eat counters, sort of a Canelo/GGG lite, and Munguia hasn't fought anyone with that style who could hurt him. Hurd is a straight ahead fighter, and with a guy like Munguia, I think that is a plan that would be foiled quickly. I like he chances against either guy, but I could be wrong as we both know. Prospects/up-and-comers are rarely fool proof.
Fri, 2018-07-20 13:30
Don't agree with that at all, Mikey believes he can win that fight, but it shouldn't happen. It's stupid in my opinion because it's personal, Garcia should stop talking, because getting battered, embarrassed is a nasty way to get your mouth closed. Lopez is another of these young prospects who has potential, but is nowhere near ready, I do think Munguia can unify, and at maybe even 24, that's young to even win one world title, but speeding up his improvement doesn't mean he is ready yet. I think you are getting very carried away with Munguia, and I don't see Munguia beating Charlo and Hurd if they fight at all, I think that would be a bad decision. Great, so let's forget all about Charlo and Hurd in relation to Munguia, let him move up to 160, and if he is still there in 3 years, let's talk about unification bouts then, the fact that he needs to move up just shows he's not fully grown yet, I mean, this kid is 21, fights at that level where he can have 6 fights a year, makes one statement, agaisnt a champion who was questionable, looked very disappointing, and suddenly the kid is ready for Hurd and Charlo, I think that is crazy, we all thought he would lose to Ali, let's not forget that, no, let's forget Hurd and Charlo, be realistic, and focus on Munguia vs Smith, see how he does in that fight, don't worry about a 21 year old losing career time, and also, it's not like he not occupied against Liam Smiths, but he needs at least a couple of years learning, adapting to fighting guys between Johnny Navarrate, and Jermell Charlo, before he fights Hurd and Charlo. If Munguia fought Hurd or Charlo now, and won, I would eat my hat! Do I think Munguia has the potential to beat Hurd? Yes, Charlo?, possibly. I still think this is basically the same as saying Davis was ready for Lomachencko because he beat Pedraza.
In terms of how you described the fights, no way do I think Munguia could take Charlo out if his element, and Hurd, yes he's a straight ahead fighter, Munguia is a kid, he is weight classes below his ultimate weight, he would be overwhelmed, bullied, taken apart in there, Hurd would make him work early, maybe do a Golovkin vs Brook, let him think he is doing well early, but just break him down.
Fri, 2018-07-20 13:49
But he is naturally bigger than both Hurd and Charlo, and has fought at bigger weights, so why do you think he'd get bullied? They don't really bully guys. I mean, it took until the 12th for Hurd to drop Lara, and Lara was the much smaller guy and was trading the whole fight. And Charlo isn't an overwhelming puncher of bully, more cerebral. I didn't say I think he would take Charlo out of his element, that is the one I think is the most dangerous, due to Charlo not getting forced out of his comfort zone often. Hurd isn't much more experienced on the World stage than Munguia, only 2 fights more, that is part of the reason I think Munguia wants him and could beat him. And Navarratte has been in the ring against some top tier talent, so he is a level higher than I think you credit him for, at least in terms of a proving ground fight for Munguia. He had a few duds early, as a lot of Mexican fighters with bad promotions and managers due, but then fought full 10 against Ocampo, Clayton, and Munguia, and lost a very close fight to Samuel Vargas; all top tier guys.
I can see why you'd think I'm getting carried away with my projections on him, but I think he has all the physical tools at his advantage, and his punching power exceeds the rest of those guys, which we know can be the end all, and I've watched a lot of his fights, so I have a pretty good feel for him stylistically, at least I believe I do. I never thought he'd lose to Ali, I believe I picked him to win that one as well.
Fri, 2018-07-20 14:34
Yes, and he is still at 154, he is not fully grown yet, that's why I think he'd get bullied. Hurd does. Yes, because Lara is a skick boxer with a lot of pedigree, he knew how to keep Hurd off, Hurd did well to wear down and drop Lara at all, Munguia doesn't have that maturity or experience! Hurd lacks skill, defence, but ultimately, he wins, and if you think he can't beat a kid who hasn't fully matured, and has very little experience, no exposure in this sort of world of top level boxing yet, then come on, let's be realistic. Oh I know, that's why it was 2 nothing minutes, and then he knocked Lubin out cold, I think he would systematically beat Munguia up in a one sided beat down. Yes he is, Lara, Trout Harrison, that's 3 fights in which he experienced and learned far more than Munguia could have against Ali, they went 8, 10, 12, and also, that's 3, for big fights, 3 is enough I think at this point, think how much Hurd learned from those fights, and hey, maybe in 3 years, 4 fights which last maybe 6 rounds and 2 12 round fights or late stoppages which are tough learning fights for Munguia which introduce him to a new level, then!, we can start talking about Hurd and Charlo, but now, you are taking his armbands off and throwing him in the deepend before he has gotten in the water. He wants him and believes he could beat him like mosg young fighters believe they can beat anyone, Shakur Stevenson has been calling out Lomachencko. These guys are not meaningful opponents at world level at all, a level below Hurd's top 4 at least, lost very close to Samuel Vargas, just think levels, just think about the calibre of opponents you are comparing, no I see absolutely no steadily decent world level opponents Munguia beat before Ali, these guys are low level.
You are, and if you want to support a young fighter who is doing well then great but realism is something else. Well that's not necessarily true is it, because his power hasn't been that tested, and he hasn't developed his natural power yet, he is not fully grown, he doesn't hit harder than Jermell Charlo and Jarrett Hurd now. Munguia is taller, has 168 potential, great, in 5 years, making 154 will be impossible, but he can make it now, and now, he is 21, not fully matured, still basically a youth fighter or just past that, and you want to put him in against fully matured, peaked 27 year olds, when he hasn't newrly reached his prime, look what happaned to Lubin, Bin, it just isn't good to be impatient and unrealistic in boxing, you need to wait for fighters to be ready, and no way is Munguia ready for Charlo and Hurd, 2 years, 4 fights, that's ambitious, 3 years, 6 fights, 2 tough fights, would be better. Whole different world though, all those opponents are low level, nowhere near world class, so it doesn't mean much how dominant he looks in those fights. I'm 90% certain none of us did, I remember nobody getting any points, and us all agreeing he wasn't nearly ready for Ali, I honestly don't think Munguia is top 3 at the moment, top 5 maybe, but not top 3 yet, because he isn't good? No, because he has so much to learn, I think Kell Brook and Erislandy Lara might still have too much for him, but to be honest, maybe for summer 2019, Lara would be the perfect opponent for him, an older Lara than the Lara Hurd fought, still a risky opponent, but what a learning fight that could be, in a year, Munguia could be significantly better than he is now. I think Charlo and Hurd will never figut Munguia because of the weight difference, but why on earth does it matter if Munguia fights Hurd and Charlo, Mall Charlo and Derevyanchenko, or Ramirez and Smith? The other champions in the division will be the other champions in the division, and every division has world champions, I don't much believe in all that strong or weak division stuff, tell me a division, and I'll tell you at least 2, probably more world champions or fighters who are likely to become world champion.
Fri, 2018-07-20 14:51
I guess I feel like I just disagree on most of that, because I think he is a higher caliber prospect than Lubin was, is bigger and stronger than either Harrison, Lara, and Trout, and seriously doubt he'd get beat pillar to post by Charlo, because I think he'd be the most talented guy that either Hurd or Charlo stepped in against. Seasoned he is not, but talent can exceed that. We've seen numerous, young, dominant world champs over the years. I know it isn't common, and not the preferred route to build up a fighter, but each guy is different. We don't have to agree on it, it is okay, I think I am high on him in a similar way that you are high on Callum Smith. We've both seen some really good work that we think can make them next level fighters. I'm just happy that there are so many great fights to be had between 154-168, as that has always been my favorite group of fighters.
You mentioned Ryan Garcia earlier, and I know you like him as a prospect, and I mentioned Tanajara. Have you watched any of him. He's a talented kid, and I think could give King Ry a good fight, if not for them both being GB products. The kid really uses his height well, boxes very mature, and fights from the outside successfully like very few young guys I've seen. If you haven't had a chance to see any of him, you should give him a look when you get some spare time.
Fri, 2018-07-20 16:24
That may be so, but there is little to no evidence of that as of yet, and before Ali, Lubin beat the much better opponents than Munguia. He's not stronger than Trout and Lara, because he is not fully grown yet, he will be in 5 years, he won't be at 154 at that point, but he is nowhere near ready. I'd almost guarantee it, he is weights below his ultimate weight, he is 21, very little experience, he isn't ready. It's an unnecessary risk, he has talent, he also has time, why make him walk into losses?, why not let him learn, make the most of his talent? But not at 21, leaping from the guys Munguia has beat to Charlo and Hurd. It is not the preferred route because it is irrational and reckless. I'm high on Callum Smith because he was worked his way up, proven himself at a high level, he is on the cusp, he just needs that big, big fight, Munguia is way behind Callum Smith, in 3 years, then we can comapre him to Smith, but now, it is levels, maturity, neither have proven themselves at the highest level, but Smith should and will get his chance to prove himself years before Munguia. Great, well I have no favourite group of fighters. There is no reason to think Munguia is any less talented than you say he is, I see no reason why he can't unify one day, have even 3, maybe even 4 belts, but he has a lot to prove, a lot to learn, and he is nowhere near ready!
He's one of Robert Gs prospects, not seen him fight yet, will do. They are a threat to each other, and one beating the other might not be worth it, I don't know, it depends on a lot. Well he would do, Robert G is the man, best trainer on the planet, Tanajara is well taught!
I think we have both said all we have to say on the subject of Munguia and unification fights, we agree on if, strongly disagree on when, let's leave it at that for now and let time tell. For now, let's see how Munguia deals with Smith, should be by far his toughest fight so far.
You excited for Usyk vs Gassiev?
Fri, 2018-07-20 16:46
I agree, it is definitely a time will tell situation.
I agree on Robert G, too. His guys are always so well prepared, and well conditioned.
I am, biggest fight of the year so far in terms of history. Can't remember the last time I've seen all 4 of the main belts on the line in one fight! I'm torn on who wins. Usyk has such great output, and seems to come on strong at the end of fights, and has such a pedigree, it is hard to pick against him. But, Gassiev at home, with that power, and a tremendous corner of his own, he could win this. I'm happy for another great Saturday of fights!
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