Julian Williams vs Nathaniel Gallimore Scorecard by Gold


scorecard by GOLD
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JULIAN WILLIAMS
10
10
10
9
9
9
10
10
10
10
10
10
117
NATHANIEL GALLIMORE
9
9
9
10
10
10
9
9
9
9
9
9
111

Fight:



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Julian Williams

Nathaniel Gallimore



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Comments

Gold's picture

Nothing surprising there, Crawford doesn't talk trash at all really. Him saying Thurman is the #1 Welterweight based off of resume, yeah that is true, but how much does that really matter to how he is rated today considering his inactivity?

Champion97's picture

Not the point, not about Thurman, the point is, Crawford competing at 147 IS and adjustment for him, it IS an obstacle for him to overcome, and at least for a fight or two, he will be at a slight weight disadvantage! That is what I have been saying for a long time!

Gold's picture

What do you really expect the guy to say though? Of course he is going to say he is being challenged regardless of if he is or not to raise the stock of what he is doing. Crawford isn't going to say something like "All of the Welterweights are bums. Thurman has one arm, Spence is on steroids, Garcia won a paper championship, Porter is a midget and Horn robbed an old man. Next up for me after all these bums is the Super Welterweight versus Jarrett Hurd. Easy work." He literally says nothing about weights, the article is discussing the name brand and status of boxers at Welterweight which is why he talks about Thurman that way.

Champion97's picture

You can't try to use someone's personality to prove your point which is about sports science, he might well say all the welterweights are bums, Crawford has taken a more sportsman like approach, but that link I sent you (not hard evidence to back up my point) strongly suggests that Crawford (like I said so many times) will be at a (possibly brief, possibly small) weight disadvantage!, because he has never competed at 147 before, and with Danny Garcia say, came from being a career 140, to 147, Crawford was at 135 for a while, I can't believe you dispute that!

I see what you're saying, he was saying he has to prove himself against those guys, as a new set of rivals, and just because he identifies them as the top dogs at 147, doesn't mean he meant ut is new career step weight wise, ok, but here's another way of looking at it, he has already unified a division, he doesn't have many more levels to step up, 147 stronger division?, yes, but Viktor Postol and Julius Indongo were very good fighters until Crawford ruined them, but still, hard to compare them, especially Indongo, to Spence and Thurman, I understand, so the link doesn't much help my point if at all but it still stands,

Crawford (like I said so many times) will be at a (possibly brief, possibly small) weight disadvantage!, because he has never competed at 147 before, and with Danny Garcia say, came from being a career 140, to 147, Crawford was at 135 for a while, I can't believe you dispute that!
Don't start with the whole ring weight stuff again!, this is how boxing works, to adapt to anything, you experience it, Crawford, has never fought at 147 before, a good sized welterweight could not make 140 in a million years, and hasn't ever been at 135.

Gold's picture

If Crawford was like Broner he would just say they can get it and they are easy work for him, but that isn't Crawford's personality. You are just making stuff up to make the article suit what you want to believe. The quote Crawford is responding to by Thurman is Thurman talking about if Crawford is a draw at Welterweight. It says or implies absolutely nothing about weights themselves.

Nope, I have already made my point about weights before, I am right on the issue and I'm not going to talk about it anymore.

Champion97's picture

'You are just making stuff up to make the article suit what you want to believe', that is exactly what you are doing.

I acknowledged your point about the irrelevance, and I considered what you said, proof, 'I see what you're saying, he was saying he has to prove himself against those guys, as a new set of rivals, and just because he identifies them as the top dogs at 147, doesn't mean he meant ut is new career step weight wise'.

You can be as stubborn as you like, but I'll say it once more, you are wrong.

You can't say Crawford is not at a weight disadvantage against Horn, because he absolutely is, not a big one, I think Crawford can still be great at 147, but don't get carried away with how important you think small details are, and do not dismiss the facts!

Crawford being 160 in the ring means little, he has never competed above 142, spent a long time fighting at 135. Floyd Mayweather fought Canelo weighing 146, didn't get bullied, he was tense for a couple of narrow rounds, and then Mayweather gave him a boxing lesson, Canelo was probably over 160, did not help him, but I'm telling you now, had Mayweather fought Canelo in some kind of crazy fight where he weighs 152 or less, Canelo fights at 160, it wouldn't matter what they weigh in the ring, that would not be a fair fight!

Granted, the fighter who's style might benefit from gaining more post weigh in weight will have an easier time early in the fight, of holding centre ring and not taking a backward step.

Just admit you are wrong!

Gold's picture

No, it is just an article about who is established and who is a draw at Welterweight.

How many times do I have to say this? Crawford is a very big Super Lightweight. He weighed in at 157 on fight night versus Diaz and Postol, the actual weight where punches are thrown and the fight is decided, and Horn apparently weighed around at ~159 lbs versus Pacquiao at Welterweight. They have almost the exact same frame. That is factual information. If you want to talk about actual experience carrying more weight because Crawford will put on more muscle and outweigh Horn than that is another conversation. Crawford does not fight in a way that wastes a lot of energy.

He has competed at 157 lbs in the ring which is what actually matters, where the fight is ultimately decided. He has outgrown those weights. Here you go off topic again. The fight was at a 152 lbs catchweight and Canelo rehydrated to 165 lbs while Floyd was 150 lbs at the weigh-in and in the ring. Some guys impose their size better than others. Canelo did not try to impose his weight advantage for most of the fight, instead, he inexplicably tried to box and counter punch arguably the greatest pure boxer of all time which worked to Floyd's advantage being the lighter more nimble guy.

Not just in the early stages of the fight, if someone rehydrates a lot of weight and has a good motor they can impose it for twelve rounds.

You are just speaking pure non-sense and looking at things in a very rigid manner. There are no longer at ring weigh-ins like in the 1800's or same day weigh-ins like in the 1900's. Rehydration is a legitimate strategy to get an advantage versus a smaller fighter even if they weigh in the same at the official weigh-ins. Someone can be in a weight class below someone and actually be bigger than someone in the weight class above them.

Champion97's picture

You're tired of saying the same things? You and me both brother!

You are some hypocrite having a pop at me going off topic, I will try to keep this short.

'Crawford is a very big Super Lightweight',
Ok, but not so big that he is always the bigger guy, gave away height to Indongo, was smaller than Postol, and he is not too big for 140 to have competed at world level at 135 for a while. Also, 7lbs is a big jump.

'He weighed in at 157 on fight night versus Diaz and Postol, the actual weight where punches are thrown and the fight is decided, and Horn apparently weighed around at ~159 lbs versus Pacquiao at Welterweight'.
Meaningless! We can have this ridiculous discussion all day long, Broner being 155 against Maidana didn't make him a welterweight, he is at his best at 140, he will never be a welterweight, some real welterweights might weigh that or even less in the ring, Spence weighed 157 against Brook, same as Crawford, and yet, Crawford is much smaller, you've admitted that before.

The longer a physically competitive fight goes on, the more important natural size is. Muscle mass helps you a lot early, and so does outright weight, but not so much as the fight goes on.

Give up, your argument is wrong!

'You are just speaking pure non-sense and looking at things in a very rigid manner.'

Are you looking in tne mirror and saying this?

Exactly, it is a strategy!, what weight you fight at goes beyond a strategy, that is more important!

You are very wrong, I know more about this than you do, seriously, I think you are starting to realise now.

Look, I do not deny that weighing a lot in the ring can help you, it is a strategy like you said, but for the life of me, importance and significance wise, it does not compare to the importance of what weight category you are used to fighting at.

Badou Jack will do alright against Stevenson I think, after a few, Stevenson will tire, his age, muscle mass will be a hindrance, but early, speed, outright weight will help him, but Badou jack is not only taller than Stevenson, he moved because he could not make 168 anymore, he has been at 175lbs many times, but Crawford has never been at 147, while Thurman, Spence, Horn were fighting at light middleweight, Crawford was fighting at Lightweight!

I'm pigsick of this looping argument, you are being stubborn, and you will not accept when you are wrong.

A good sized welterweight, can not make 140, do you understand that?

I have more important things to do, just grow up, and admit when you are wrong!

Gold's picture

Irrelevant points about Indongo and Postol, saying he is very big does not imply he is the biggest in the division. As I have shown before, Crawford has around the same or greater height and reach than Thurman, Porter, Garcia, etc. He has a good build for putting on mass as well.

Just listen to yourself, saying the actual weights where the punches are thrown is meaningless. Broner has a bad build for going all the way up to Welterweight, he was putting on weight but it was not effective weight. Maidana was an effective 161 lbs versus Broner because he built himself up to be a legitimate Welterweight. Spence and Brook weighed 157 lbs or less because of the IBF rehydration clause, both guys can rehydrate higher than that.

It depends on the style of the boxer and if the weight is effective if it actually helps them and by how much.

Yes, I agree, what weight you fight at (in the ring) goes beyond a strategy, that is more important.

You don't even know about rehydration clauses so you certainly do not know more about this than me.

You are making it too black and white, someone can be more effective and bigger even though they are coming up in weight. It isn't usually the case but it can happen. Less aggressive counter punchers like Crawford don't waste as much energy and therefore it does not affect them as much to put on weight.

It is more that Stevenson is very old and Jack will work the body than Stevenson's stamina because of his mass. Thurman and Horn are not big Welterweights. Saying they fought at Super Welterweight is disingenuous, both fought above the Welterweight limit as prospects when they fought much more often but never at the full Super Welterweight limit.

Again, some can put on effective weight easier than others. As I said before as an example, Bernard Hopkins made a 157 lbs catchweight versus De La Hoya and became a legitimate Light Heavyweight in a short amount of time. I am sure Thurman and Horn could make Super Lightweight but they would have to cut muscle mass which is a terrible idea. They are good sized guys but they are not big Welterweights.

You are clearly in the wrong here.

Champion97's picture

I know far more about this than you, now you probably know more about rehydration clauses, but that is a small part of this topic. You know more than me about the business aspect of boxing, but I have more tactical knowledge, I understand what goes on inside the ring better than you, and I definitely am right on the weight topic.

You are making my head explode, you are very wrong, I'm right.

Don't you wonder why I very happily admit when you are right, but on this one, I'm staying put?

Champion97's picture

I will try to explain what I mean.

Rehydration is a strategy, it can help a fighter for strength and centre ring authority, early in the fight, when I say in ring weights mean little, I don't mean that is always necessary the case, but to put it this way,

You
1) In ring weights, who puts on weight better than others, etc
2) what weight competed at and adjusted to

Me
1. what weight competed at and adjusted to
2. In ring weights, who puts on weight better than others, etc

Do you agree that this, and this,

Crawford will be at weight disadvantage in his first couple of fights at 147?

Is what we disagree on?

Gold's picture

No, I am not necessarily saying that what weights are competed at and adjusted to is below in ring weights, it depends scenario to scenario. On the Crawford vs. Horn one, I would agree with what you are saying my position is though. Yeah, I don't think he will be outweighed unless he somehow faces a monster like Spence soon which won't happen.

Champion97's picture

'Yeah, I don't think he will be outweighed unless'...
Heavier doesn't necessarily mean bigger, Kell Brook outweighed Gennady Golovkin, Jarrett Hurd only weighed about 160 against Lara, this is all less significant than you think.

Put it this way, forget ring weights and all that for a second, who can get down to the lower weight, that is a better way of determining who is the bigger guy. You would have a better argument had Crawford fought at welterweight as an amateur, but he didn't, and even if he had, like Ward fighting at light heavyweight as an amateur, still took some adjusting for him at 175 didn't it?!

Gold's picture

The weight has to be effective, Kell's weight was not effective. Again, there was likely a rehydration clause for both of these fights because of the IBF.

Not to be rude but this shows how little you know about this subject. There is a lot of variability on how much weight people can and do cut. Crawford has a good frame and build, he is not like Mikey Garcia at 140 where he is clearly at the end of his weight range. Most guys who are successful will move up in weight classes from what their amateur weight if they didn't have a long amateur career. Ward's adjustment was mostly because of how much time he spent out of the ring between Super Middleweight and Light Heavyweight.

Champion97's picture

You are the limit mate!

Not to be rude, but I have forgotten more today than you will ever know about this whole sport you clown. You are arrogant, ignorant, and you don't know as much as you think you do. You are a busy idiot who has the most negative attitude towards the sport. You are wrong on this, and I think you are confused as to why I keep stating that, but have time and time again admitted when I'm not an absolute expert on certain things. When you get all smart alec and deny that fighters and trainers' voices should be heard more than yours, you know you are arguing for the sake of arguing.

Yes, I know, over a certain period of time, but listen, read, and think, for the first time in your life, accept that you are not a walking encyclopedia.

I understand, that fighters can train their way uo the weights, I understand better than you think, I also know very well, that fighters do train hard to cut weight, but it TAKES TIME, to do it properly, now, if Crawford has trained his way up to be adapted to the weight, he wouldn't have been able to make 140 last year, period!

Yes, not all, but most, and Crawford has already moved up once, and for the tenth time, I do think Crawfordwill be nearly as good at 147 as he was at 140.

Ring rust was an issue, but I'm telling you now, when he fought Sullivan Barrera, he clearly had to adjust to the weight.

You are ignoring what I said, you want to know how big a fighter is, don't look at ring weights, and who can weigh this and that at times, look at the lightest weight a guy can make! If I honestly, for the life of me can't make 118 anymore, I'm killing myself, I cannot rehydrate, that would give me confidence of doing well at 122, but if I can make 118, then me weighing 132 during fights, that means I fight heavy, for a few possible reasons, but it does not mean fighting 122 is a good idea!

My point, what I'm trying to explain to you, is focus on what weight can and can't make, not how heavy they are at certain times.

I understand fully that fighters can hire the right people, find a certain training and nutritional balance to cut weight, and also to do the opposite, and I also know that training your way up rather than eating your way up, sure it takes longer, but is a much wiser way of doing it. To train your way up, it takes time! If Terence Crawford had worked his way up the weight, great, but that will have taken a long time, and although I'm sure he has done everything right, he has never fought with the extra weight, so that, is, an adjustment!! If Crawford was used to fighting at the right size for a welterweight, then back in August, he would NOT have made 140!

Read what I have said, and admit you're wrong on this! You didn't admit Povetkin vs Price wasn't 99/1, you didn't admit you got carried with your bonehead, disgusting, bullshit AJ steroid accusations, so I'm not expecting any humility or maturity from you.

Here's the thing, and this is really funny, shows how arrogant you are,

It is not that I know that much more than you on this, I just know a couple of things are more important than you understand and vise verse, you dispute that like you insist AJ is unclean, fine, throw your toys out the pram and argue, but it does not make you right!

You do not have to be dead at a weight to move up and be successful, but if you are dead at a weight, that's when it is time to move up, not when you weigh a lot in the ring.

Cutting weight and building muscle, not something I'm an expert in, but I know a fair bit, and one thing I do understand, is that to do it properly, takes time, and to fight with any kind of altered nutrition or training techniques, is an obstacle, it is an adjustment, it provides a disadvantage, and raises new questions.

Now, if you meant that Crawford is naturally the same size as these guys at welterweight, Horn, Thurman etc, and he has done a lot of weight cutting over the years that they haven't, then ok, fair point, but it is a similar scenario, because for the last however many years, Crawford has fought at a lower weight, that is what he is used to and adapted to, and he hasn't fought at welterweight, it still stands, is of the same significance whether or not he had to cut a lot of weight to be at lightweight. Now, I do understand that being at a weight, cutting down, and then being back at that original weight, is more 'effective' than doing what Broner did and just blow up through the weights, but the biggest difference there, is not what you are saying, but it is the difference between a weight jump which is an outright, flat out bad idea, and a weight change which could work well for you, but WILL TAKE ADJUSTING TO!!

If we train as hard as each other, I can't make 118, you can do it reliably, even if you weigh 132 in the ring and I weigh 130 or less, then I'm bigger than you are, and a jump to 122, for me, would take less getting used to than it would for you.

Gold's picture

Haha, are you mad about how I said not to pay any attention to what Freddie Roach says? The guy says all kinds of crazy stuff but even he wasn't crazy enough to say Horn won.

He has been off for a while now since the Indongo fight and has had time to put on some weight, he is not going from a 150 lbs in-ring weight to Welterweight either.

Saying what weight people "can" make is just a fallacious argument, as I have already stated the amount of weight people can cut is highly variable. Deontay Wilder could probably make Cruiserweight if he actually cut weight, but that doesn't mean he is too light for Heavyweight. Just because someone can't make a weight anymore either doesn't mean they are actually too big for the weight, there can be other factors such as a bad weight cut or bad nutritional planning.

It is kind of funny you are arguing that it is hard to put on weight now when it is guys other than Joshua who put on an insane amount of lean muscle mass in a short amount of time. It is definitely possible with modern "supplements". Not that I think Crawford is necessarily on steroids, he does not have to put on a lot of weight to be a good sized Welterweight and effective weight doesn't necessarily have to be lean muscle mass which does take time to build. Hopkins went from 169 lbs in-ring weight versus Jermain Taylor to 182 lbs versus Antonio Tarver in 6 months. Roy Jones Jr. went from 182 lbs in-ring weight versus Clinton Woods to 192 lbs versus John Ruiz in 6 months.

If Paulie said AJ was on steroids like he did with Pacquiao, which you believe, would you believe it?

He will have to adjust to the weight gains he does make, I have never disputed that. However, I am saying it is not that big of an adjustment given he already has good size and a good build.

Champion97's picture

First of all, I appreciate your willingness to keep discussing this topic, I apologise for calling you an idiot and a couple of the other stuff, that was unnecessary, and you are right in areas, you are good at evaluating topics without missing anything, but I know that you are also missing the main point of this discussion, and what I'm trying to explain, I am right about! You are right about a lot of things that aren't that significant to this topic, but there are a couple of simple, very true things I've said which you can't accept, and couple of things you keep sticking to, which I'm telling you now, you are wrong about.

No idea what you're on about. Horn beat Pacquiao.

As I've said, be that as it may, he may have put on the weight well, but with that, rather than paying the price of carrying bad weight, he will have had to have paid with time, time he won't have had before, so beforehand, he would've have been too big at that point to make 140, but we know he wasn't because he never missed the weight, so he must be bigger now than he was then, because he will have built up muscle, so now, he can't make 140, and again, he will be carrying extra weight, of any sort, which he isn't used to fighting carrying, and for the 100th time mate, that is an adjustment!, the key in anything is adapting, practice, repetition, understand that!

Oh I understand that, Wilder wasn't much heavier than a cruiserweight when he turned professional. Here's what I'm saying, to cut muscle, stubborn muscle, it takes long, it is absolute torture, and it takes longer, more effort to lose weight than to gain it. 'Too light for' because all the different scenarios, has become ambiguous. Actually it sometimes does, especially for a growing kid in his late teens, and say a fighter only makes weight by the skin of his teeth, builds up muscle, is stronger with the muscle at a higher weight, doesn't want to go through hell cutting the weight, why make the weight?, why not move up?, but it depends what you mean by can't, physical impossibility? Unwise? Extremely difficult and time consuming? My point is, a weight a fighter is or isn't making is a much better way of finding out how big a fighter is than how much they weigh in the ring, assuming the fighter has done everything right. I do understand that some fighters do cut a lot of weight, and it ultimately works well, Zolani Tete is 5'9, unbelievable he was able to make 115.

They don't, Joshua is about 20 lbs heavier than he was 4 years ago I believe, that is a lot of muscle, but it has been a good few years since he turned pro, and he is a heavyweight. Basically, to build weight the right way, it takes time. That's a good point, Maxi Nutrition, Whey Protein, but even so, they help, they don't change sports science, this goes back to my forgotten point which you keep avoiding, making any significant weight alterations, and then competing, does, take, adjusting and adapting to! Ok, and I'm sure that was an adjustment for them, and the Ruiz and Tarver fights were harder than they would have been.

Ok, so he wouldn't be able to make 140 in a couple of months, we can agree on that, he will fight as a good sized welterweight, a trainee, pending welterweight, because what he is not, is an adapted welterweight, why?, because he has not fought at 147 before, it's like running a half marathon, or marathon, 1st is the worst! Crawford will not be used to doing long rounds, at a high level with the extra weight he has built up, he is not taking a warm up bout, he is going straight into a world title fight against a guy who has been fighting at this weight for his whole career, he hasn't done it before, his body is not used to it, I agree with a lot of what you have said, and again, like I said yesterday, Crawford is 5'8, was a massive lightweight, and as you said, he will have cut no corners, done everything right, so I think after a fight or two, he might even be as good as he was at 140, but moving up in weight is a give and take, it is a stern test, it is a bold move, and a new weight category takes adapting to!

I don't know, depends on his argument, but Joshua has put on a lot of muscle over a long period of time, not impossible. You can believe what you like, but do not go around the Internet and tell people Joshua is 'certainly is steroids' because that is not right at all!

Well that is most of the point I have been trying to make, but that isn't the full extent of our debate. What does "not that big of an adjustment" mean?, another ambiguous statement. I'm saying that it is enough of an adjustment to put him at a significant weight disadvantage against Horn, which it will, Horn has a weight advantage!

I will have your fights up soon!
You confident about overtaking SalTnutZ1 tomorrow?

Gold's picture

No problem man, I have thick enough skin I can take it.

Again, I'm not saying he won't have to make an adjustment, I am just saying it will not be a notable one because of his size he already has and his style.

No, I am not talking about cutting muscle to make Cruiserweight. I am just saying for example that if Wilder weighed 215 versus Ortiz, he may be able to cut 15 lbs in a normal weight cut and make the Cruiserweight limit. I am arguing that the amount of weight each guy can cut is too variable to say "x can't make y weight and z can make y weight, therefore, x must be bigger than z".

Yeah, and it is both legitimate supplements, better training, and in some cases, steroids. Again, I am not saying it doesn't take an adjustment, just that it affects different fighters differently. If someone moves a lot and throws a lot of punches which uses a lot of energy, it will be tougher to deal with the extra muscle than someone who counterpunches on the ropes.

For Horn to take advantage of whatever adjustment Crawford has to make, he is going to have to fight the fight of his life. He is going to have to make Crawford fight unlike himself, because if Crawford can pick his spots, counterpunch, make Horn think about coming in and eating punches, it will difficult to get Crawford to gas. He has been very energy efficient thus far in his career.

It is hard to say how much "not that big of an adjustment" is because we haven't seen him at Welterweight, but I am basing this off of historical knowledge of people moving up in weights plus what I know about Crawford so far. Therefore I am sticking to my guns that Crawford will be the bigger man versus Horn.

Thanks, I am looking forward to scoring them.

I don't know, from what I remember it really comes down to if Vargas wins or if Broner wins. I really feel like Vargas is going to win, for me, I feel like it is a situation of not getting fooled again by Broner saying he will be motivated this time. Even though I picked Vargas I kind of hope Broner wins just so we can see him talk more trash at press conferences, it was funny what he said about Ellerbe.

Champion97's picture

I don't doubt that!
Well that is not what you said before, I'm 99% sure I'm right on this, and I get the sense you are gradually accepting it, I think whilst you miss no details, you are good at analysing things, I think you take certain things too literally and trying to be too precise, and you miss the point.

What weight a fighter fights at, and is used to fighting at, means far more than what they weigh in the ring.
If making 130 is a serious problem for me, but not you, but you fight, there and then, weighing 145, whilst I'm 141, then I'm bigger than you are. Weighing a lot in the ring, on a relative scale, is not meaningful.
Whilst I understand fully well that "I can't make that weight" can mean a few things, and one if them is what you said about alterations being necessary, it can also mean that a fighter has outgrown the weight, and cutting weight would mean taking time and additional mental, and physical endurance to get rid of stubborn muscle, when they would be much stronger and more comfortable at the weight above, and that is the extent of just how literally you take things, and it is not accuracy, it is overthinking, and you miss the point.

Sports science is sports science, a fighter's natural weight is a fighter's natural weight, you can not grow or shrink (because you love to be preicse about every detail so much, OK, not if you are over 21!). There comes a time when it is unnecessary, borderline impossible to continue to cut weight.

Jeff Horn is a career 147 lber, Terence Crawford has varied between 135 and 140 lbs, forget, "but but, he weighs this in the ring", that is a disadvantage, "he will do everything right, put on weight the right way, weight he had to cut before to get down to lightweight", ok, but it is a disadvantage, for now, but a temporary disadvantage or a permanent disadvantage, we are talking about Horn vs Crawford, and regardless of the further furture, in June, when they fight, it will be Crawford's first fight at 147, and less importantly, but still relevantly, he will be fighting with extra muscle mass he is not used to fighting carrying, every pound really can make a difference in boxing, it is push to the limit kind of stuff, it will definitely be a disadvantage for Crawford, I said that, you disputed it, you were wrong, admit it, and move on.

Again, he is not bigger than Horn, he is not a big welterweight, he never will be.

Because of what you've said, because of what I already knew, and have also said before, and also because Crawford isn't skipping anything, and has done it gradually, I do not think Crawford moving up to 147 is a bad option, and I think he will adapt well, but he may tire more easily against Horn, sure he will be physically stronger, and he will take a lot of power up to 147, but he is hitting and being malled by a fighter much bigger than anyone he has ever faced, he will adapt I think, he will deal with a welterweight better next time, his body will handle the pace better next time, he may have more of his natural power next time, but for now, against Horn, because of everything I have said and maybe more, in this fight, Crawford is at a weight disadvantage!, just like I said, the in ring weights mean little, just like I said, and what you are saying about being a real good sized welterweight, at this point, and what a lot of things you have said on this topic, have been wrong!, some exaggerations, and some false points. You know more than me about business, history, but this is one of the aspects of boxing, which I know better than you do.

I'm not finished, but I just want to enjoy the fights now!

Gold's picture

No, you just didn't understand my argument so you think I am coming around to yours.

Yes, what weight a fighter fights at, and is used to fighting at in the ring is very important. That is objectively false, as I have said plenty of times just because someone is comfortable at a weight does not mean that someone cannot come up a weight and outweigh them. It is not just about cutting muscle, some fighters do not understand proper weight cutting techniques and proper nutrition going into the fight.

You can certainly can go up in weights as you age, that is a ridiculous argument to make. What was once a natural weight can become impossible to make it.

Jeff Horn could certainly make 140 lbs with his frame if he started out with that weight in mind. What people weigh in the ring is the only thing that matters given the weight is effective, weight classes are little more than cerimonial with one day early weigh ins. I never said that Crawford wouldn't have to make an adjustment by putting on more weight. It just won't be a big one because of his style and the weight he already has.

Again, he is nearly as big as Horn at Super Lightweight, Horn is not a big welterweight, he never will be.

Horn is simply not good enough to get Crawford to tire, rushing in may work versus an ancient Pacquiao but it will not work versus an in prime counter puncher like Crawford. Crawford will not be at a weight disadvantage, that is final, I am not willing to debate this anymore. What weight people are when they are actually throwing punches is the only thing that matters when we are talking about the fights themselves, one day previous weigh ins are merely more than ceremonial. You have made some completely false points and exaggerations.

Champion97's picture

I am right on this and you are wrong!

Champion97's picture

I am struggling to explain what I mean, and I have mis spoke and possibly exaggerated, but I know my actual point is right!

Still enjoy talking boxing with you on other topics, I might still send you that reply, but I would have to explain it well, but I have had enough of this back and fourth stuff

Gold's picture
Champion97's picture

Linares vs Crolla II was not worthless!
Kovalev vs Pascal II was much less necessary than Linares vs Colla II
Wilder vs Stiverne II was much worse than Povetkin vs Price!
Anthony Joshua is not on PEDs!
If people in the boxing world say something should happen to cheating criminals, you should respect that!
Crawford will be at a size disadvantage against Horn!
A good sized welterweight can't make 140.
Jeff Horn beat Manny Pacquiao legitimately! Pacquiao's trainer and promoter both said so!

SalTnutZ1's picture

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVeo0CJ9X_s I have no dog in the fight, but thought this was interesting considering the convo you two have had.

Champion97's picture

I can't watch the video because it is not available in my country, thanks anyway pal.

SalTnutZ1's picture

Ah. Well if you get a chance, it is called "The Fight Game: Making Weight Feature", by HBO Sports. I think it is a short, but interesting/relevant video to your topic.

Champion97's picture

You confident of keeping your top spot on the scoreboard?

SalTnutZ1's picture

Hell no! Haha. Someone is bound to disappoint me. I only adjusted that fight from a Draw due to being in the lead, as I was the only outlier. We shall see how it goes. What do you think of May's slate of fights?

Champion97's picture

We'll see I guess!

Great, Golovkin vs Martirosyan and Gonzalez ve Guevara should be great, of course Bellew vs Haye II, and Linares vs Lomachenko, awesome! Are you looking forward to May's fights?

SalTnutZ1's picture

For sure. I think it will be tough comparing any month to the one we had in March, but should set the Summer of fights off right! What do you think of Mikey Garcia dropping the Junior Welter to defend the 135 belt? If he can grab another belt soon, I think a matchup against Linares/Loma winner would make an amazing fight to end the year!

Champion97's picture

Without any doubt, it was the right decision, sure he impressed against Rojas, Broner, Lipinets, but against Zlaticanin, he was a beast, no Mikey is much better at 135 than 140. What an awesome fight that would be!

Gold's picture

Good video, I have heard about what the CSAC was doing from MMA. Champion97 the video is about how the California athletic commission is trying to stop large and dangerous weight cuts that fighters use to get competitive advantages in the ring. The CSAC wants to try to force fighters who fight in California into going up in weight class for their next fight if they cut more than 10% of their weight before a fight. In the video, Freddie Roach says that he doesn't agree that cutting a lot of weight is a big advantage citing Pacquiao.