Muhammad Ali vs. Joe Frazier II Scorecard by mike25

scorecard by MIKE25



Muhammad Ali

Joe Frazier

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Champion97's picture

I thought Frazier wasn't great in this fight, I find it annoying that some say it was close either way, it really wasn't.

Same here. Also I'll respond to the Broner card later I have been busy the last couple days.

Apparently Davis isn't fighting Martinez anymore he's fighting some guy who fights in Costa Rica. Also jack vs cleverly is official.

Champion97's picture

No worries, I'm going to get busier on the next few weeks, hopefully.

Yeah, not a bad opponent either, not as experienced as Martinez, had a fair amount for fights though, undefeated, younger than Martinez, less miles on the clock. Awesome match up! Who you got, I think Jack, wide.

Same here. I'll try my best to be active.

I think Martinez was a better option but I'm ok with this I guess. I never really heard of the guy till now. I like jack vs cleverly, I remember us talking about that as an option after the degale fight when he moves up. I think he beats him 118/-110 range.

Champion97's picture

OK cool.

Pros and cons, I agree, not really a lot in it, Davis has bags of time, he isn't the inexperienced young pup some people think he is. No me neither. I agree.

Did you hear about Luis Nery's great win over Shinsuke Yamanaka?

It's a huge opportunity for both on a huge fight card. I think he can get an easy fight here and there as well. I think Davis has improved a lot since last year.

I heard and that's a huge upset. Yamanaka was about to break a record and needed to win. Also I heard gamboa edged out a decision. I don't think he's the same after the Crawford fight.

Champion97's picture

Yeah absolutely, and if Mayweather vs McGregor is a mismatch, then I think Davis and Porter can win one sided fights, impress, stay active with victories, and Cleverly vs Jack, well I can see that being fight of the night.

I thought Yamanaka would win, well, 53% sure, I predicted an SD, for Nery to drop Yamanaka late, but not quite do enough to get the victory. Yamanaka is still the most underrated fighters on the planet in my opinion, well, he was, he is up there, Nery reminds me of Davis a bit, he is young, he seems inexperienced, but he is a beast, a great talent, I believe Nery will be one of the top fighters in years to come, could even become a star in boxing.

I thought he'd get a unanimous shut out, he edged him out, I mean, Alexis Reyes, all due credit, tough Mexican guy, but he is not skilled enough, experienced enough, or of the calibre of an opponent who should be coming close to beating Gamboa, I think Gamboa is just about finished now, he can have a few more fights if he wishes, make some more money, win, but when he is coming off a loss, win was close, why step up?, and he's on the wrong side of 35, sad, but in all realism, yes I agree, he has never been the same since he lost to Crawford, not only that, but he's nowhere near the fighter he was then, it is sad, but he has had a very good career, beaten Orlando Salido, Daniel Ponce De Leon, Darleys Perez, been in the ring with Crawford, brought something out of him which we hadn't seen before, made him have to adapt, showed courage, got up every time he was dropped, he's still a half decent fighter now, won most of his fights since losing to Crawford, but no I agree with you on this.

I think most likely the mayweather fight will be a mismatch. I think Porter and Davis can look impressive in their fights. I agree with you on jack vs cleverly, I think it can be fight of the night. Also, how big is mayweather Mcgregor over there?

I picked him to win as well. I agree with you on him being underrated. Anyone to have double digit defenses is pretty good. Have you seen his first fight with Moreno? Also I think Nery will gain more popularity in the next years. To pull an upset on the champs home turf is a big accomplishment.

I thought he would to. It seems like he's being competitive with fighters he really shouldn't. I think he's declined tremendously since the loss. I mean he's won more than he's lost but he's looked bad as of late. Before the Crawford fight he looked like he would have a promising career. Getting wins against good opposition and looking good while doing it. It's still good to give him credit for giving Crawford a tough fight, he made him have to change his game plan. I really wish he could've been better in his career, I like watching him fight and he's not a horrible person.

Also, there's 2 big pieces of news. One zab Judah supposedly knocked mayweather out in sparring, even though I don't believe it that's being reported. Also Shane Mosley finally retired.

Champion97's picture

Yeah I still think so, even though I must say I'm interested now, yesterday, I wrote a long second analysis on it, I asked and answered a lot of questions,

Here is that part of it,

Will McGregor's UFC experience help McGregor much? Will it have boosted him as a boxer? Can he use his power as a boxer? Just how much boxing has he done in the past? Has he always had boxing as part of his preparation for his UFC fights? Does McGregor have incredible one punch power?, like Gervonta Davis seems to, like Deontay Wilder, like Earnie Shavers did, like Errol Spence seems to, was that staggering left hand he caught Malignaggi with as good a shot as it looked? What were the circumstances there? Will McGregor's instinct cause his UFC related style tamper with his ability to box? Does McGregor have the basic, defensive instincts to rely on in those seconds when he really needs it? How much will wearing 8oz gloves hold back McGregor and decrease his speed? Does McGregor have the foot speed to get close to Floyd Mayweather? Does McGregor really understand the differences between MMA and boxing?, the differences which aren't as obvious? There are so many questions which add interest to this fight.

It is absolutely massive!! I'm a bit annoyed with SkySports and the British media for the way they are talking about Mayweather, trying to make McGregor out to be an inspiration, trying to say he's winning the fight already, I mean, they got a body language expert on the show, to zoom in on the footage of McGregor shouting 'you can't even read', and because Mayweather was biting and his leg was shaking, the guy started talking about how it is a sign of anxiety and stress, his point was that McGregor 'really got to Mayweather there', for goodness sake, these are well known signs of irritation, yes the guy was stressed, maybe slightly anxious, he was on stage in front of all those people, he was trading insults, he considered it a bit of a battle that he had to win, but obviously, that has nothing to do with the fight itself, wait no sorry that's not true (haha), McGregor 'will get Under Mayweather's skin and that will win him the fight', they had David Haye on there too.

No I haven't. I think he will do too, he's another prospect to follow.

Terrible. Absolutely, I struggled to predict his fight with Crawford. Yeah absolutely, that will never go away, he was great that night. Me too, but it is just one of those things.

He didn't. About time, I remember when people were saying he should retire in 2012, when he lost to Canelo.

I think there's some interesting aspects of this fight. Although I'm picking mayweather to win big I wonder how a ufc fighter would do in a boxing match. I hear people say that Mcgregor was originally going to be a boxer then decided to switch to mma. I mean he might have some experience but it's not pro experience and that makes a big difference. Those are good questions about Mcgregor, but I think there are some for mayweather too. Like how declined is he, how will he approach this fight and things like that. At first I hated this fight but it kind of grew on me.

It is massive over here as well. People who never watch boxing are coming out to watch this fight. Reporters are really just trying to build up Mcgregor as much as they can because he never fought a pro boxing match. I think they are looking into the body language a little bit too much. I really believe Floyd and mcgregor don't let anything the other says bother them.

For sure.

I think another thing that was an issue in gamboas career was inactivity. He was fighting once a year and that's just not enough. But before the Crawford fight he seemed to be a guy who would live up to the hype and would give him problems. I think he was supposed to fight Mikey Garcia at some point.

Any story that comes out on mayweather Mcgregor is hard to believe really. They're just doing what they can to hype the fight. I think it's good to that Mosley retired to.

Champion97's picture

I'm in the same boat. I can believe that, the facts are still the same though. It grew on me too. Yes absolutely, but I think the questions about McGregor are more crucial because if McGregor is to have any chance, he will have to answer these questions in a big way, whereas for Mayweather, I think where he is in his career, how good he is now, is more predictable, he hasn't fought for nearly 2 years, he is 41, he is not the fighter he once was, he doesn't have the legs, speed, stamina, recuperative ability, we know that, but how much of a difference is that going to make?, I mean, McGregor wouldn't even to answer questions with an unlikely answer which suits him to be able to capitalise upon Mayweather's decline, but like I said, I believe he doesn't make the top 10 anymore, top 15, and he is the best fighter who has ever lived in my opinion, but he is not the fighter he once was, and I think Crawford would do a bit of a number on him in all honesty.

No they don't, and I would say, in the ring, maybe 30% of the battle is a mental thing, maybe that is way off the mark, this is knowledge, which only problem boxers have, but anyway the mental battle, I believe is about the crowd, where you're fighting, pressure of performing, many other reasons, but not so much the opponent personally, especially not someone as experienced, mentally disciplined as Mayweather.

Absolutely, that is no way to bounce back from defeat. Apparently Mikey was ducking Gamboa, haha.

I hate all the BS which hypes up McTapper, and Dana White is a piece of shit as well, sorry for the language, you are too humble to talk like that, but I think we agree on the point I-, making, setting up Malignaggi, spreading rumours about Mayweather getting knocked out in sparring, I mean, it's just stupid. It was long overdue.

Only 1 month to go now until the big one! I don't know who to root for! I don't know who to pick to win! I keel edging GGG, nah Canelo's got it, nah I think GGG, no Canelo, just back and fourth, keep changing my mind.

I really hope Porter vs Garcia happens.

The thing about Mcgregor is that he has to have expert level boxing skills in his first fight, and it just doesn't work that way. We pretty much know what were getting from Mayweather, but Mcgregor is somewhat unknown. Not unknown in meaning he'll give Floyd issues, but unknown as in how good he can be or his potential. I think Mcgregor might be the one that has the most questions, like how good of a body puncher is he, because in his fights his body punching is non existent, same with head movement. And I really don't think his stamina is that great. If I were to rate Mayweather I would put him in my top 5 pound for pound. I think Crawford and Ward are better.

Ufc fans are saying that Mayweather will fold because Mcgregors mind games are going to mess with him so bad. I don't think they realize how mentally strong Mayweather is.

I wonder who said he was ducking Gamboa.

Yeah same here, there just doing all they can to make Mcgregor a credible opponent and people are buying it. I don't really like how this fight is being hyped up, I feel like most of it is staged. Have you heard of Brendan Shaub? He has been a huge part of this fight and is picking Conor to win.

I'm picking Canelo to win but I'm like 51 percent on that. I can see GGG pulling it off. I don't know who I'm rooting for yet this is a hard one to pick throughout the whole way from picking a winner and who to root for.

Same here. Also I think Dorticos vs Kudryshov as well. I didn't know much of either before they were scheduled to fight in the tournament, but looking into it this seems like it will be a good fight.

Champion97's picture

No it doesn't. Exactly, he'll have worked on these things, but just what does that mean when it comes to it? Well it is a different kind of fitness, he hasn't done more than 5 rounds, the long rounds certainly won't be a problem, it might mean he can put a lot into periods of rounds which could be interesting, but like you said, overall stamina, going long, 36 minutes, with a break every 3, not 1, not 2, 3, rather than 25 minutes, 36, and McGregor hasn't done that before. What in his prime? Or now?

Well I mean most of them probably don't know boxing, the same way I don't know UFC, these UFC fans you talk about that is, there are plenty of good loyall UFC fans who support McGregor, but know he has almost no chance in this fight and they know the reason, some are maybe massive fans of both boxing and UFC, doesn't have to be one or the other, but if people really believe that McGregor is going to win based off that, then they need to read a book each, I mean, I blame SkySports in part, getting a body language expert to explain how anxious and stressed Floyd was at one of the press conferences, come on, they did the same thing with the Pacquiao weigh in, 'Mayweather's biting, Mayweather's tense, Pacquiao's getting to him mentally', I don't think he has got under his skin.


No, just another moron though so I'm not really interested in learning anything more about him.

Yeah a lot of these Eastern European guys wait a long time before their names are recognised, but there are lots of these very good fighters around.

What about this eclipse thing you guys got coming?, exciting?!, or are a lot of you more freaked out than excited, it is weird, maybe a bit unnerving I imagine.

There is a different level of fitness in UFC and boxing but I think that depends on how Mayweather fights. If Mayweather fights him like he says Mcgregor will gas out, but if not he could possibly go 12. And the stamina issues I noticed them in his Ufc fights. Also for all time somewhere in my top 3, and right now maybe 3 or 4.

That's true. One thing I would say is Mcgregor gained a huge following fast, and some of them are radical. I think that they might just be saying Mcgregor will win because they like him so much, and might not have a reason to pick him.


I mean he seems like a decent guy but he doesn't know what he's talking about.

That's true. I can't wait for that fight.

It's pretty exciting. I heard you can't look directly at it or it will damage your eyes.

Champion97's picture

Sorry for the late response, been outdoors a lot. We know McGregor can work 3 minutes a round, maybe in terms of just exertion itself, he'll do a long round better than Floyd's 47 other opponents, but the question is, when it gets into the second half of the fight, can he sustain the once he set, how quickly can he recover from fatigue, he's certainly the right age to tick these boxes, but does he realise how much Mayweather can make fighters work? How hard a has he trained for this fight?, how many times has he sparred 12 rounds? These are questions I'm interested to get the answers to. Of all time, he's number one in my opinion, buy I think there is a reason why he isn't returning to fight Thurman, Golovkin, or Crawford, because part of the reason why Mayweather, in a sense, can't lose, is because he won't take a fight he isn't 100% confident he can win, and it has 49/49 times he's been right, 47/47 opponents have been beaten conclusively at least once, and he's won unquestionably, 48/49 times, and an injury was a factor in that first Castillo fight. I think at 40, Mayweather would get dominated by Crawford, Lomachenko, Garcia, Golovkin, Thurman, Spence, maybe Porter and Garcia edge him, I mean, I don't think Horn, Vargas, Broner, Postol would beat him, he's still got the skills, intelligence, power, physical strength he's always had, but he doesn't have the legs, hand speed, reflexes, durability, sustainability, fluency, as low a risk of sustaining an injury as he used to, Floyd is not superman, but McGregor, I'm 99% sure, is no Crawford.

I would be happy if I had a son who never heard McGregor's name, showing off about inflicting 'head trauma' on a sparring partner who was there to help him, bit of a man slag if I might say so, nasty piece of dirt, and I hope Mayweather tortures him.

Yeah I heard that too.

Thats's fine. I know he can work pretty good in the beginning. I think that he sometimes fades later in rounds. In his second fight with Nate Diaz that was clear, but he also fought 20 pounds heavier. I think Mcgregor is very focused on this fight and trained hard. I think Mayweather only returned after the Berto fight to fight Mcgregor was money really. I'm sure if guys like Golovkin, Crawford, Lomachenko, and all the other guys you mentioned had the big money I think Floyd would do it. But I could be wrong. His reflexes, speed have decreased, but I wonder how much. I don't think it's enough for Mcgregor to take advantage of.

I think that's disrespectful by saying that. Remember last time someone talked like that (Kovalev). I hope Mayweather wins big to.

Champion97's picture

Absolutely, I don't think even he is that much of an idiot, not to train, I mean, at least with him training he believes in himself. Yeah I agree, well I think 90% of the reasoning was financial. I don't agree on that, unless he needed the money, and there was a lot at steak, I mean, in that case, pushing for a Pacquiao rematch would be smart, he would win that I think with ease, just give him another boxing lesson, there could be big money in that, but I don't think Floyd even believes he can defeat Terence Crawford, Mikey Garcia, Vasyl Lomachenko now, he knows he isn't the fighter he once was, I mean, at 40, for a fighter who has always relied on reflexes, footwork, defensive ability, hand speed, it is very difficult, I honestly think he wouldn't take those fights. I think a massive amount, I mean, compare the Mayweather we saw against Berto, to the Mayweather we saw against Alvarez 2 years earlier, there really is no comparison. McGregor can take advantage to a small extent, but nowhere near enough to come close to winning the fight.

Sorry what? Me saying what I said about McGregor? Or what McGregor said about Malignaggi?

Same here, I think Mcgregor knows what he wants to do when he gets in the ring. But executing his gameplan is another battle for him. I think he only took this fight for money, and that's not a bad thing. I'm not saying he's scared of Mcgregor, but he's taking it because he is going to make a lot of money for this fight. I like the Pacquiao rematch better, because that can make a lot of money to. I think Floyd thinks he can beat all those guys, he has a huge ego and probably doesn't want people thinking they can beat him. For me I think Floyd can still perfrom at a high level for his age, and even though his reflexes, footwork, defense, and speed is declining I still feel he could beat them. But I can be wrong, I thought Pacquiao was still able to give the elite welterweights a tough fights.

What Mcgregor said about Malinaggi on inflicting damage. You said nothing wrong.

Champion97's picture

No, I mean, yes, he flashes cash, yes, hot chicks like him for his money, yes, he has mansions, flash cars, but ultimately, where is that money going? I'm sure he's putting that in his kids' bank account, paying for their education, supporting his parents, so him making a lot of money is not a bad thing, and let's be honest, he gets paid that much, because he brings in that much, people can't complain about him being overpaid when they pay for tickets to see him lose. Well I mean either one of us could easily be right, this is what is going on in a man's mind that we're giving opinions on. That's a very valid opinion and many agree with you, but I personally don't believe so, I'm not saying he's an old man who needs a walking stick, I'm not saying he couldn't beat Frankie Gavin, I just think that Crawford, Thurman, Lomachenko, Garcia are good enough and close enough to being as good as the best Floyd Mayweather was to be too much for him at 30 against 40. I agree about his ego, and I think that's right, he wouldn't want people to know he doesn't think he'd beat Crawford even if he does think that, which he might not. I think Jeff Horn is underrated, but still, Pacquiao is not the fighter he used to be, I don't think he was ever quite as good as people said he was.

I hope McGregor gets less popular as time goes on, because he's a horrible man.

What did you think of Crawford's performance?

Yeah, that's true he gets paid the amount he deserves. He brings in so much money for that city and deserves what he's getting paid. I know what you mean. I think you're saying he isn't old enough to lose to fighters like Frankie Gavin, but can't beat elite fighters like Crawford or Thurman. For Horn I feel he's underrated as well even though he beat a declined Pacquiao. I think Pacquiao during his prime was a great fighter. Not the best of his time though.

I think with this fight win or lose his popularity will only grow.

It was great, that body shot was perfectly executed and I'm happy he won all the belts. What did you think? What's next for Crawford?

Champion97's picture

It can be a sensitive issue, I mean, there are those out there who kill themselves to make ends meet, and they watch an arrogant man flashing his cash, but no, Mayweather has the intelligence, the business sense, and he earns that money, doesn't steal it, doesn't embezzle it, he earn it fair and square. Yeah that's what I'm saying, I think we haven't seen a fresh Floyd Mayweather since 2013, and at that point he was 36, he is not the fighter who beat Marquez, Hatton, Gatti, Castillo, and I don't believe he was so much better I his prime than fighters as good as Crawford that he can beat them under the circumstances. He was, no doubt, not as good as people say, I think he had a lot of conveniency in his career, he fought guys when they were going down, he was great, just not as good as people say in my opinion, but he beat Cotto, Barrera, De La Hoya, Marquez, Morales.

Sensational, didn't see that coming!! He is definitely the best in my opinion! I have no idea, Progaris?

I can see where someone can get mad over some guy flashing and talking about their money all the time. It's annoying and it can be disrespectful. Mayweather did make it the legal way which is good. I think 2014 is when we saw Mayweather look vulnerable for the first time in a while, I also thought his performance was good against Pacquiao. For Pacquiao I think Bradley is also a good opponent he's beat. Bradley's beat nearly everyone and his only losses came from Pacquiao. The names you mentioned were good to.

I thought the stoppage would be later, like from rounds 9 on. That's great he was able to get it so quickly to. Also, I want to see him fight at 147 next, but realistically he might fight again at 140, or possibly go to 147.

Champion97's picture

Yeah, it had a lot to do with Maidana being underrated, but no to be honest, in the first fight, he didn't look as fast as he did against Canelo, and in the second fight, he didn't have the gas tank which he had had earlier in his career, and it is simply because he's human, that's how what being over 36 will do to a fighter. He did, but that was a very negative fight, he didn't look anywhere near as fast and sharp as he did early in his career, I think Pacquiao was just overrated, I mean, who did he follow? Maidana, Canelo, Canelo, a star in boxing, Maidana, former world champion who beat Adrien Broner, nearly stopped Amir Khan, before he improved vastly, I think the Pacquiao fight was a technical master class, and Mayweather not much more declined physically than he was against Maidana, buy the key is, Maidana made him look old by pushing him so hard, Pacquiao couldn't do that, even in round 4 when he hurt him. I thought Floyd look a lot slower on his feet against Berto than against Maidana or Pacquiao, he said before that fight that he didn't enjoy boxing, I mean, two years later, he keeps saying he doesn't have the legs he used to, he's slowed down, if he could beat Crawford, Spence, Garcia, Lomachenko, at 40, and I'm not shaking my head, he is 49-0, I think that would be exceptional, crazy, I think Crawford, Spence, Thurman would be too much for him now, and I think Garcia and Porter would edge him too, dominating the late rounds. I think Jeff Horn would push Mayweather, win rounds, but I think Mayweather still has the physical ability not for his skills to be negated by age of someone as good but not great as Horn. Yeah absolutely, I was just speaking more from a historical point of view, but no you're absolutely right.

Phenomenal!! Yeah, I think maybe after one more fight, maybe now, I don't know, it depends. I think Crawford will move up to 147 sooner or later, I think beats them all, even Spence and Thurman.

Same here. I'll try to be active soon.

Not the best fight but I'll take it. I never heard of the guy till now. I like the jack cleverly fight, we talked a about it when he was considering moving up. I think Jack will win in the 118-110 range.