Juan Francisco Estrada vs Roman Gonzalez II

Enter your Juan Francisco Estrada vs Roman Gonzalez II fan card
CONTROVERSY RATING: 86%
The percentage of fan cards that disagree with an official result. Exclusively on EYE ON THE RING.
Juan Francisco Estrada vs Roman Gonzalez II
Fan Rating: 
0
Your rating: None
4.96154
Average: 5 (26 votes)

Date: 
Saturday, March 13, 2021
Rounds Scheduled: 
12
Contracted Weight: 
Referee: 

Official Judging
Jesse Reyes 113 - 115
David Sutherland 115 - 113
Carlos Sucre 117 - 111

More:






Averaged Fan Card:

round 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
Juan Francisco Estrada
                                                                    
9.97
9.25
9.52
9.08
9.04
9.89
9.89
9.22
9.25
9.04
9.81
9.02
Roman Gonzalez
                                                                    
9.02
9.77
9.47
9.91
9.97
9.10
9.10
9.77
9.79
9.95
9.25
10


Fan Cards: Juan Francisco Estrada vs Roman Gonzalez II


scorecard by HJS341
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
9
9
9
10
10
9
9
9
10
9
112
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
10
10
10
9
9
10
10
10
9
10
116


scorecard by CHRIS M95
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
10
10
9
9
10
10
9
10
9
10
9
115
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
9
9
10
10
9
9
10
9
10
9
10
113


scorecard by ONLY1
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
10
9
9
10
10
9
9
9
10
9
113
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
9
10
10
9
9
10
10
10
9
10
115


scorecard by YTT
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
10
9
9
9
10
10
9
9
9
10
9
113
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
9
10
10
10
9
9
10
10
10
9
10
115


scorecard by NOWLAN03
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
9
9
9
10
10
9
9
9
10
9
112
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
10
10
10
9
9
10
10
10
10
10
117


scorecard by DIEGOYEYE
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
10
10
9
10
10
9
9
9
10
9
114
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
9
9
10
9
9
10
10
10
9
10
114


scorecard by TUXTUCIS
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
10
9
9
9
10
10
9
9
9
9
112
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
9
10
10
10
9
9
10
10
10
10
116


scorecard by SAULCANELO
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
9
9
9
10
10
9
9
9
10
9
112
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
10
10
10
9
9
10
10
10
9
10
116


scorecard by POWERPUNCHER999
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
10
9
9
10
10
9
9
9
10
9
113
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
9
10
10
9
9
10
10
10
9
10
115


scorecard by MIKE25
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
9
9
9
10
10
9
10
9
10
9
113
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
10
10
10
9
9
10
9
10
9
10
115


scorecard by RUTHLESS-RKO
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
9
9
9
10
10
9
9
9
10
9
112
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
10
10
10
9
9
10
10
10
9
10
116


scorecard by MARTHOLOMEW
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
10
10
9
9
10
10
9
9
9
10
9
114
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
9
9
10
10
9
9
10
10
10
9
10
114


scorecard by BEAUNUITMEM
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
10
10
9
9
10
9
9
10
9
10
9
114
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
9
9
10
10
9
10
10
9
10
9
10
114


scorecard by PRECISE
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
9
9
9
10
10
9
10
9
10
9
113
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
10
10
10
9
9
10
9
10
9
10
115


scorecard by SHZA
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
10
9
10
9
10
10
9
9
10
10
115
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
9
10
10
10
9
9
10
10
9
10
115


scorecard by OFFICIAL SCORECARD
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
9
9
9
10
10
9
9
9
9
9
111
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
10
10
10
9
9
10
10
10
10
10
117


scorecard by SONNY
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
9
9
9
10
9
10
9
9
10
9
112
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
10
10
10
9
10
9
10
10
9
10
116


scorecard by FURRATI
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
10
9
9
10
9
9
9
9
10
9
112
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
9
10
10
9
10
10
10
10
9
10
116


scorecard by NF82
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
10
9
9
10
10
10
9
9
10
9
114
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
9
10
10
9
9
9
10
10
9
10
114


scorecard by ALLYBLAACK
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
10
9
9
10
10
9
10
9
10
9
114
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
9
10
10
9
9
10
9
10
9
10
114


scorecard by MIZARK44ENIS
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
9
9
9
10
10
10
9
9
10
9
113
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
10
10
10
9
9
9
10
10
9
10
115


scorecard by ARJ GUY
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
10
10
9
9
10
10
9
10
9
10
9
115
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
9
9
10
10
9
9
10
9
10
9
10
113


scorecard by NOCTISSOLID
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
10
10
9
9
10
10
9
9
9
10
9
114
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
9
10
10
9
9
10
10
10
9
10
115


scorecard by MUSHAVR96
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
9
9
9
10
10
9
9
9
10
9
112
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
10
10
10
9
9
10
10
10
9
10
116


scorecard by TOMMY_GUN04
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
10
9
9
10
10
9
9
9
10
9
113
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
9
10
10
9
9
10
10
10
10
10
116


scorecard by BKGOAT
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
9
9
9
10
10
9
9
10
10
9
113
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
10
10
10
9
9
10
10
9
9
10
115


scorecard by IMSTEPHENG_
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
9
9
9
9
9
10
9
9
10
9
111
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
10
10
10
10
10
9
10
10
9
10
117


scorecard by CAMMYM123
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
10
9
9
10
10
9
9
9
10
9
113
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
9
10
10
9
9
10
10
10
9
10
115


scorecard by CHAMPION97
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
9
9
9
10
10
9
9
9
10
9
112
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
10
10
10
9
9
10
10
10
9
10
116


scorecard by MBUCK
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
10
9
9
10
10
9
10
9
10
9
114
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
9
10
10
9
9
10
10
10
9
10
115


scorecard by MINIMAXBOXING
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
10
9
9
9
10
10
10
10
9
10
9
115
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
9
10
10
10
9
9
9
9
10
9
10
113


scorecard by HARDCOREBOXINGGFAN
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
9
9
10
10
9
10
10
9
10
9
10
9
114
ROMAN GONZALEZ
10
10
9
9
10
9
9
10
9
10
10
10
115


scorecard by DEANISBLIND
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
9
9
9
10
10
9
9
9
10
9
112
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
10
10
10
9
9
10
10
10
9
10
116


scorecard by WAREHOUSE
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
10
9
9
9
10
10
9
9
9
9
9
112
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
9
10
10
10
9
9
10
10
10
10
10
116


scorecard by JAKAJAKA
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
10
9
9
9
10
10
9
9
9
10
9
113
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
9
10
10
10
9
9
10
10
10
9
10
115


scorecard by JAROD KILLIAN
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
9
9
9
10
10
10
9
9
10
9
113
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
10
10
10
9
9
9
10
10
9
10
115


scorecard by GOOSU
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
10
9
9
10
10
9
9
9
10
9
113
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
9
10
10
9
9
10
10
10
9
10
115


scorecard by ZAC.RJ
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
9
10
10
9
9
9
10
10
10
9
114
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
10
9
9
10
10
10
9
9
9
10
114


scorecard by VC1088
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
10
9
9
9
10
10
9
9
10
9
113
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
9
10
10
10
9
9
10
10
9
10
115


scorecard by LUKASZRPB
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
10
10
9
10
10
9
10
9
9
9
114
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
9
9
10
9
9
10
9
10
10
10
114


scorecard by VLAMONZOB
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
10
9
9
10
10
9
10
9
10
9
114
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
9
10
10
9
9
10
10
10
9
10
115


scorecard by AJ KNIGHT
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
10
9
9
9
10
10
9
9
9
9
9
112
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
9
10
10
10
9
9
10
10
10
10
10
116


scorecard by MAGIC MAN
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
9
9
9
10
10
9
9
9
9
9
111
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
10
10
10
9
9
10
10
10
10
10
117


scorecard by GOLD
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
10
9
9
10
10
9
9
9
9
9
112
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
9
10
10
9
9
10
10
10
10
10
116


scorecard by PETIEROACH
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
10
10
9
9
10
10
9
9
9
10
9
114
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
9
9
10
10
9
9
10
10
10
9
10
114


scorecard by METALHEAD123
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
10
9
9
9
10
10
9
9
9
10
9
113
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
9
10
10
10
9
9
10
10
10
9
10
115


scorecard by WILLIAMBOXING
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
10
9
9
10
10
10
9
9
9
9
113
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
9
10
10
9
9
9
10
10
10
10
115


scorecard by SALTNUTZ1
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA
10
9
10
9
9
10
10
10
9
9
9
9
113
ROMAN GONZALEZ
9
10
9
10
10
9
9
9
10
10
10
10
115


Comments

Jarod Killian's picture

Roman Gonzalez UD12

Champion97's picture

Prediction.

Gonzalez is older, has more miles, and Estrada has been more active in recent years, he's a slight favourite, but I think Gonzalez will edge the fight. I've been more impressed by Gonzalez's recent form than Estrada, his last 2 performances were both more impressive in my opinion. Gonzalez must have had an off night against Rungvasai in the rematch, styles were a factor in the first Rungvasai fight in my opinion, and Gonzalez seems to declining as slowly as Donaire, Nietes, based on his last few fights, he must be declining, but very gradually. Estrada hits hard, is a counter puncher, has fast feet, but his defence is leaky in exchanges, it hasn't improved at all in my opinion, he leaves gaps when he throws his own shots, and his tactical discipline was poor in the 2nd Rungvasai fight, he was running away with it for 8 rounds, wasn't gassed in the late rounds, but gave ground against the puncher, it didn't cost him the fight, but I think Gonzalez can take advantage better than Rungvasai, he throws more shots, is more varied, is deceptively skilful. I think Estrada can hurt Gonzalez, but he's not the best finisher.

I think Estrada will start faster, he will use his speed, change direction, throw combinations, but he won't be able to box comfortably, and Gonzalez will do a better job of cutting off the ring in the early-mid rounds, will increase his output as he gets into range more often, Estrara will struggle to get his own shots off because Gonzalez will throw so many shots as he comes in, will be varied, and Estrada will be a target. I think Estrada will have more success with the uppercut than the right cross, and whenever he lands clean, he will do damage, but Gonzalez will position himself not to get hit. I think the late rounds will be very close, Estrada will take advantage whenever Gonzalez tries to rest, will move off the ropes more often, but Gonzalez's output won't drop much, he'll have taken a lot out of Estrada by landing clean to head and body in volume, and when both are tired, and Estrada is in front of Gonzalez, that will favour Gonzalez, because he can fight tired, isn't reliant on speed or power.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if either won by stoppage or decision, Estrada has the power to knock Gonzalez out if he walks into an uppercut, Gonzalez can break Estrada down with relentless pressure and volume to head and body, Estrada can out box Gonzalez, but I think Gonzalez will edge it by a close decision.

Chris M95's picture

wow why you think that

Champion97's picture

I'll explain when I finish my break down

Chris M95's picture

cool...
me tho I'll be basing my pick mostly on where they both are now vs where they were in the careers first fight and no matter how wrong I can be sometimes always like to factor in what happened in their first fight only difference here was back then Gonzalez was at his peak or close to it whereas Estrada was a baby..an oppenent in their to be another stoppage or show case victim for Gonzalez and he gave Gonzalez all he could handle and then some

granted less accomplished fighters but highly talented young skilled ones sometimes need to be in there with with the test on a given night to be ranked properly think Ryan Garcia and basing their ranking or rating just on the accomplishments prior to their big major test may be not so wise in hindsight like say ranking Stevenson rn from a legendary fighter POV or amongst the elite fighters of his time ...granted Stevenson rn ain't too accomplished but not everybody would be basing their picks of his current predicament right ?
a sizeable crowd picking him to beat experienced fighters like Betchelt if he prevails over Valdez at that weight and that includes me

but thing here was outside his ardent fan base nobody expected Estrada to be much of threat to Gonzalez going in...in 2012 and 2 factoring in how much Estradas game had improved and become more versatile since then it's hard to pick Gonzalez and that's without factoring in Gonzalez slippage even though he looked real nice in his last 2 bouts

granted they are In same weight class idk if a peak Gonzalez beats the current version of Estrada much less the Gonzalez of present day

Champion97's picture

I see where you're coming from, I'd favour the younger fighter in a rematch more often than not, but the first fight was so long ago, and I think Gonzalez improved more from then to 2016 than Estrada, is declining very slowly.

It depends how tested they are, and fighters who's careers are just getting going have more unanswered questions, there's easier arguments to make on both sides in this fight because both are more tested.

How much as Estrada improved? I don't think he's improved as much as a fighter potentially can between the first fight and now, is recent form not more reliable than several years ago? His decline is so gradual it's hard to see, the only basis for clear decline is the Rungvasai rematch.

A peak Gonzalez, in my opinon, would beat him fairly comfortably, he improved more in his twenties than Estrada in my opinion, I'm not confident Gonzalez wins now, but I would be fairly confident if it was a peak Gonzalez, not 99%, because I don't think Gonzalez has declined quickly, but he has to be a few years into decline.

If you have time, you could read my game plan analysis for this fight.

Chris M95's picture

and i respect the points you brought up bro
id say that 2012-2016 was Gonzalez's peak if not close to and Estrada is closer to his now

i dont disagree with both these fighters being more tested over time and that's to my point that maybe Estrada abilities might have been way too underrated in 2012 and maybe we shouldnt hold it too much against GOnzalez that the bout ended up way more competitive than expected in 2012 given what Estrada's gone on to prove since then

i feel Estrada's mid range game improved by a mile, shown better boxing ability and more efficient using lateral movement, places his shot better on the inside, better relaxed and gives different looks defensively and unlike vs Beamon he would know GOnzalez even the current version can hurt you and time you with shorter counters and unlike vs Estrada while not being as tricky and unorthodox as Cuadras was with his style or as speedy with his counters Gonzalez's pop is on a whole another level and so the windows of opportunity that Gonzalez would be getting vs Estrada would be much smaller..fewer and far between than Cuadras had vs Estrada in the rematch to land flush
Champ by recent form i take it you mean the last 2 fights? i mean 2 stoppage wins for Estrada vs one and a decision win for Gonzalez..so
what are you getting at?...do you feel that the Beamon bout was more competitive than expected going in? and Estrada got hit more in his last couple fights than what should have been expected? and took longer tan expected to knock both Cuadras an Beamon out?
id pull a page from BJS fans diaries...i mean elite fighters can sometimes look careless and defensively wanting and laxadaxical in spots vs lesser competition right and sometimes not in the best of conditioning either but when he steps up his game and fights more defensively responsible vs the current Gonzalez...how much and what would Gonzalez be giving up in his to attempt to land his power shots on Estrada? also would Estrada be right in place to tagged over and over like Israel Gonzalez was or have a style tailor made for Gonzalez to counter and play into Gonzalez' strengths like Yafai had...Yafai was a solid fighter but among elite rungs was he ever at the level of Estrada or anywhere near the caliber of a p4p top 10 debatable fighter....i guess one's take on this fight has to be highly influenced by how one ranked Yakai's abilities going into the GOnzalez fight

also Gonzalez had to know his back was against the wall vs Yakai and a "crossroads" fight and he had to step up to his highest level possible whereas Beamon was a stage for Estada to experiment some of his moves and fine tune his skills and CUadras while having the experience of an elite fighter but based on his inexperience mostly was still more of a showcase fight for Estrada in Mexico
and Estrada knows based on the build up here that this is different i dont expect not to see the best Estrada from rd 1...will Gonzalez work rate of old to keep a fighter of Estrada's ability off his rhythm and honest or will he able to catch EStrada between his punches with a fight altering power punch? or cause Esrada to be more reserved after

i disagree but you can hold me to if Estrada loses here or wins a really tough fight and i guarantee you id never say Estrada beats a peak Gonzalez ever again lol

and yes i'll go on to read it (y)

Champion97's picture

Respect your argument as well, I'll make it clear if I haven't already, I wouldn't be surprised if Estrada won, I'm 55/45 on Gonzalez winning. I think Gonzalez got better in his late twenties.

I agree he's improved significantly in terms of landing at close and mid range, but it's his work ethic, tactical discipline, and gaps in his defence that makes me think he hasn't improved much, he shouldn't have been dropped by Cuadras even considering he doesn't have a good chin. Gonzalez uses consistent pressure and volume, so Estrada being wary of his power won't take much away from Gonzalez. Gonzalez has more volume, variety than Cuadras, he's more methodical.

You know it's not that simple, a decision win can obviously be more impressive than a stoppage win because there's more to consider. In my opinion Israel would beat Cuadras now, look at Cuadras's fights between the Estrada fights, look at Israel's fights since the Ancajas loss, do you think Cuadras would beat Israel now? And do you think Beamon would have a good shot against Yafai? Gonzalez was more dominant against Yafai than Estrada against Beamon in my opinion. What I'm getting at is, Gonzalez's form has been better, has fought better opponents, was as dominant if not more dominant.

Saunders is overrated in my opinion, that's a subject for another day, but when a fighter doesn't live the life, has so many poor performances, questions have to be asked, no doubt Saunders was more prepared against Lemieux, but he's not as good as he would be if he lived the life, Estrada is more disciplined, doesn't under perform to the extent Saunders does, but several poor performances aren't a good sign even if the fighter could have done better, it's harder to fight without making mistakes if you've made mistakes in your last 2 fights. The Estrada and Saunders comparison is good in general, but Gonzalez isn't Lemieux, he isn't a fighter who relies on sheer power. I think Estrada is like DeGale and Selby, they get better in some aspects, have skills, are more disciplined than a Tank, Saunders, Broner, but make the same mistakes, aren't tactically disciplined.

I don't think Gonzalez will be giving much up to land power shots on Estrada because he'll be patient, will cut off the ring, and pick his output up as the rounds go on, Estrada won't be able to get into rhythm because of Gonzalez's educated pressure. Israel wasn't in the right placedn to be tagged over and over in the early rounds, Gonzalez broke him down, Estrada's movement is better, it should be a much closer fight than Israel, but it will be hard for him to stick and move because Gonzalez will come in at angles, will offset Estrada with the double jab, he'll make Estrada work, Estrada can land his own shots, but he'll struggle to find a balance between moving around the ring without engaging enough to win the rounds, and obliging Gonzalez by giving up his movement. Yafai is better than he seems now, Gonzalez wasn't expected to be that dominant, but that seems like a stalemate, because Gonzalez is levels above Beamon and a shot Cuadras.

'Experiment with moves and fine tune skills', I don't buy that at all, this is the fight business, that would be very unprofessional at this level, fighters should never underestimate an opponent, Beamon was a challenger with the opportunity of a lifetime. I don't believe Gonzalez will be any less motivated to beat Estrada than Yafai, if anything, he'll have more confidence and momentum, this is a big fight. It's a valid argument that Estrada might have more room for improvement than Gonzalez based on Gonzalez being under more pressure before the Yafai fight, I just don't think it's enough to favour Estrada.

Same here man, fair play if I'm wrong, happens often enough.

Chris M95's picture

nah i got that 55/45 it is....and generally..in most instances i am willing to concede a lot more in pre fight discussions with regards to chances of both fighters in anticipated matchups provided i feel the probability of both events happening is reasonably good....thats just it.... i feel there's only winner here and it wouldnt be too competitive especially down the stretch and if i had to pick rn i dont feel that Gonzalez makes it to final bell just like Canelo Saunders...perceived to be competitive by most based on the accomplishments, abilities and both fighters standing in the division but i feel that's a one sided fight and Saunders quits on his feet intimidated by Canelo's timing and content just to go the distance....i know i may be sounding harsh or lunatic to fans of that fight but that's just how i see it based on how their styles mesh
same thing with Saunders Lemiuex going in...i found it surprising how many people at the time was calling it a 50 50 fight going in...i didnt think that was neither do i think these two anticipated matchups and im usually way more optimistic than that (plus lemeuix was dead at the weight )

and respects to you bro for that pick if Gonzalez does manage to pull it out id have to eat crow lol
hey if anything yours is the safe bet huh? i mean if Estada wins in dominating fashion...that was generally expected to happen across the board and is a case of the younger lion beating the older foe but im wrong im eating so crow both for this and the Canelo BJS fight predictions (one sided decision) on fb and other platforms as well...for being insufferable and speaking from my heart with regards to how i see both those fights would playing out

yes as a WHitaker super fan and how i rate his performances id conceded the argument is more complicated than that in particular instances but yeah generally stoppage wins are better and i cant argue with Chavez Sr fans stating some of his ko's of similar opponents were better performances (but then again thats the same reason i dont necessarily pick the bigger matchups based on how those 2 premier fighters does against similar competition) and from the points you brought up (Beamon vs Yafai and Cuadras vs IsraeL) i take it your also saying you'd rate both fighters Gonzalez in terms of lets say " better competition" higher than Estrada's most recent opponents?...at least in terms of recent form right....which i dont disagree with a whole lot (without speculating who would win those match ups but point taken with regards to recent form of their last 2 opponents) but my point being i have to adjust in other factors some of which Champ you obviously disagree with like " 'experiment with moves and fine tune skills' " and "Israel wasnt in place to be tagged over and over in the earlier rds" point i was making when the styles of the current versions of Estrada and Gonzalez mesh based on their most recent performances Estradas performances vs Beamon and vs Cuadras seemed better tuned to beat Gonzalez than vice versa
i get what you're saying but it aint just the movement that Estrada's got on Israel...by the 3rd rd certainly Gonzalez was beating Israel at any game Israel wished to utilize...to combat Roman Gonzalez's strengths Estrada not only has movement on Israel..he's better fighter of the ropes better counter puncher, better defensive fighter (too areas he was ironing out flaws vs Beamon)...better fighter on the inside what i meant by tagged over and over wasnt just in the old school fashion...or too literally based on one fighter over aggressive leading with his face....unlike Israel Estrada's movement and ability with it can time Gonzalez coming in and would consistently threaten Gonzalez through rds...Israel didnt have the counterpunching ability and timing to keep Gonzalez off...with respects to Gonzalez engine and punch variety once on the inside and in exchanges Estrada's defense while it could be shaky at times would be harder for Gonzalez (not saying Gonzalez keeps his head at once place at all times but yeah) to breach in 2020 than vice versa and Estrada would be would be able to tag Gonzalez more on will (with the quality he wants given how Gonzalez defense is in built into his offense and how he wans to attack at any moment in time) than the other way....in order to impose his will on Israel was dominating Israel at all those ranges and had an answer for him vs any style he employed...whereas Estrada rn could exploit Gonzalez weakness in all those ranges better, beat Gonzale to the punch and inflict damage to the point where he wouldnt be able to impose his will and force the tempo of the fight they way he wanted like he did vs Israel
for all his punch variety Roman Gonzalez is still more rhythm...flow and pattern fighter and wouldnt cause some of the problems Cuadras's unorthodoxy and speed caused Estrada in spots

"Estrada can land his own shots but he will struggle to find balance between moving around the ring without engaging enough to win the rounds and and obliging Gonzalez by giving up his movement" real solid point bro and if that happens and Estrada is gassing in the middle rds Estrada is in serious trouble huh...what if Estrada's ability making Gonzaez miss and working of that and Gonzalez's (comparatively easier breach able) defense allows Estrada to get the better of the inside work when the do engage or at mid range pivoting Gonzalez timing with flush counters..clinching nullifying him and then moving having Gonzalez cut the ring of on him...wouldnt it be Gonzalez unlike in the second half of the Israel fight..be forced here to fight desperate...potentially reach in and cut picked off again

Yafai yes not downplaying the nature of the upset..monster performance by Gonzalez that put Gonzalez back near the top of the division but what was Gonzalez consistently working on improving throughout that fight that improves his chances of beating a fighter Estrada's ability and skillset in 2021

and great comparison of Estrada to the skillset and discipline of some of the fighters you mentioned...i see a few parallels yeah

Champion97's picture

I wouldn't be surprised if either got a late stoppage, this is a 50/50 fight as far as I'm concerned. I see where you're coming from in a hypothetical fight where people are writing off the timing aspect, but as I've said, I'm basing my prediction off recent form as well as accomplishments. In terms of accomplishments, there's no comparison between Canelo and Saunders, the argument there is that Saunders's style is bad for Canelo and the same case you're making for Estrada, that we haven't seen the best of Saunders, but Saunders's wins over Eubank and Lee were close, Eubank was inexperienced, and Canelo has one of the best resumes in boxing, top 3, no doubt.

Yes, I think Yafai and Israel would both beat Beamon and Cuadras. I see the argument, Estrada will try not to give him the ground, it will take Gonzalez longer to impose his tactics than in his last 2 fights, but he cuts off the ring, will make Estrada work 3 minutes a round, he will get into range more often and land more as the fight goes on. Good point, movement isn't the only difference, he has more power, better timing, I agree he's the better fighter off the ropes, but Israel has a better chin, does the fundamentals better, has a higher output, I think Israel would make it fairly competitive against Estrada, not close, but I think he'd give him a tougher fight than his last 2. He can time the right hand, but Gonzalez wants him to throw and open up as he comes in, and it will get harder for Estrada to use the ring in the mid rounds, Estrada will struggle with Gonzalez's angles as he comes in. Good points, Estrada turns away from shots as they come, he has a leaky defence, but he has shown good defence at times, and Gonzalez doesn't have great basic defence, and Estrada can land right hand whenever Gonzalez backs up, but in the grand scheme of things, he'll be made to work 3 minutes a round, Gonzalez doesn't load up, is able to throw a shot, draw a reaction and not be in a position to take a counter, but Estrada can't easily pick Gonzalez off at long range or make him back up by catching him coming in, because Gonzalez always punches his way in, it's hard to counter when the opponent is throwing a combination as he cuts the distance. He can't force the tempo to the extent he did against Israel, and Estrada's pivots will disrupt his momentum, but he can still cut off the ring and force Estrada to work. Not speed, I agree, but I don't know if I agree on him being a rhythm fighter, he isn't the fastest starter, but he is unorthodox because he has a high ring IQ, but doesn't fight like most fighters who have a high ring IQ.

I agree on the pivots, he can hit Gonzalez on the inside, can do damage, but it's hard rely on defence on the inside when the opponent throws so many punches, and I don't see clinches working, because Gonzalez will attack the body and work out of the clinch, Estrada has a better shot if he can claim the centre of the ring, not let Gonzalez impose his tactics, and pivot when Gonzalez tries to attack, it's hard to stick and move against Gonzalez, with how well he off the ring. The difference there is, we disagree on whether Estrada can use the ring and out box Gonzalez on the outside enough to win the fight, I don't see Gonzalez being desperate in the late rounds, Estrada will be in his range more often than not, and he'll land more, I think Estrada will land the harder shots, but not more.

He was doing what we've seen him do before, he proved he could still do it, I'm not saying he's improved since 2016, I'm saying he hasn't declined enough for Estrada to beat him given how much there is for Gonzalez to exploit against Estrada, and he'll just edge the fight for that reason.

Chris M95's picture

once again Champ solid points throughout and you know what you convinced somewhat to rate the matchup more seriously
hey i go from picking a mid rd ko to a late stoppage now lol but hey im ready to eat crow too lol

yup thats just it...only i feel the opposite about BJS style vs Canelos... i mean even ignoring the improvements to Canelo's game over and the last couple of years,the accomplishments, how he looks at 168 now and not factoring in BJS recent fight form ...and basing it just on what BJS fans are claiming "Canelo has trouble with shifty movers" BJS doesnt bring anything to the table on that night that Canelo hasnt seen in those fights and doesnt have the skillsets of those fighters in that time period imho and outside of Floyd Mayweather who is not 'a' but the generational fighter of his time (granted in his older age)...against the 2 boxers most people bring up Canelo was competitive in both fights and actually figuring it out at that elite level on the fly..if not overcoming adversity on the night to beat Lara... at least coming close to beating a style that caused him issues and was frustrating him and also forced Lara to elevate his game in the last 3rd of that fight too...definitely overcame troubles vs Trout early
idk why people make out that BIlly Joe jab is that much superior to Canelo's idk if BJS wins a jabbing contest either...rd 2 of the first Golovkin fight and 2 and 3 of the second one vs an elite jabber at the level of Golovkin (granted not a south paw and that opens up different counter punching variatons) proves how underrated Canelo's jab really is...in the battle of the lead hands in the orthodox vs south paw fight dont think is as one sided as here as say Thurman vs Pacquiao looked in that aspect with how well Canelo varies his jab and uses it as an offensive weapon looking up to create other openings
plus Canelo basically graduated on the undercards of a fighter who was the best in his era of taking his opponent's jab away...also beating Canelo is impossible without work rate and lungs and BJS imo would be the last fighter to build on Canelo maybe wanting to slow down and take a couple middle rds iff...BJS slows down drastically in the last 3rd of his fights and if he's looking to pot shot to steal rds he's playing right into Canelo's hands and he aint beating Canelo at his own game...with regards to intangibles regards to heart and being able to grind out results BJS doesnt have an advantage there either like he would vs someone like an Andrade who hasnt been in too many super tough fights in recent years against better competition...and its plausible we havent seen the best of Saunders i agree (and not saying you're picking Saunders here Champ) but adjusting for that dont you think Canelo will be operating at the level where he can step his own game up in intensity and with versatility that his skillset allow..to match whatever improvements BJS displas with on fight night....also who much margin of error does BJS have on the inside..and i swore i wouldnt factor in how BJS looked against lesser competition but bare with me...but the way he needs to bully them on the inside to get favorable positions (and how BJS does it..i dont bullies Canelo the same way in clinhes or push him back) and the way he tries to push off sometimes...needing to create space would give Canelo all the time and openings to come between with shorter compact punches ripping to that body and idk if BJS can withstand that punishment on the inside for long periods across rds an d wouldnt that only put more pressure for BJS to excel with his patented game on the outside and limit his options at which range he can win the fight

and then when you factoring the other things you mentioned Champ like accomplishments and obv the experience that comes with that and recent form and how the Reynosos been trying to improve Canelo's foot speed cutting off the ring and Canelo getting more relaxed and seeing shots better while stalking on the front feet in recent years to go with his ever improving upper body movement i cant see how BJS has consistent success landing on his back foot biting on a good number of Canelo feints

with the right skillset and ability i may pick a less accomplished fighter than BJS in the future to beat Canelo....but like most and yourself i do factor in resumes and accomplishments just as much as the next guy if not more than the next guy to go with recent form (aint p4p lists usually based on a delicate balance of both plus other factors) but still there would be situations where you'd be forced to go against that right...like a more clear cut and over the top example would be obv Stevenson doesnt have the resume at 130 to match Berchelt assuming he beats Valdez but would it far fetched on my part to pick Stevenson to beat Berchelt in that match up...is it just me or the dynamic skillsets of some of the top fighters today make it harder to pick fights basing mostly on resumes than it would have been say the start and or mid 2010s?? i find it harder mostly lol and then there's situations or fighters like Warrington who causes you to doubt that practice entirely lol but dont get me wrong i still factor in resumes and recent form very strongly while picking fights and lord knows ive been wrong just as much..almost

Champion97's picture

Thanks man, but I'm not necessarily trying to change anyone's opinion, because if I'm wrong, I don't want to bring others down with me.

I agree on Canelo vs Saunders, a slick southpaw wouldn't be new to Canelo, there's nothing Saunders brings that Jacobs, Lara etc didn't. I think the best chance you have of beating Canelo is doing what Golovkin did in the first fight, push him back on the jab, Charlo has a bad style for Canelo in my opinion, but not Saunders. I don't think Canelo would let it be a battle of the jabs, he'd use his head movement, cut the distance, cut off the ring. I think we're in agreement on Canelo vs Saunders.

It is hard to pick fighters to win based on resume first and foremost, because of how impressed you might be by a fighter based the eye test, I think prospects are getting more profiling earlier in their careers, so it's easier to be sold on them as good fighters going into their first big fight. Of course, you still have to take resume into account because of what their fights prove, but also the experience aspect, they're more qualified if they've been in against better fighters.

Chris M95's picture

yup Canelo's gotten a lot better at cutting of the ring to a point rn where that might be an underrated aspect of his

wonderful point on how more and more younger talents have the access wider platforms and are profiled earlier on in their careers to and tho in most instances i'd be cautious not to heap to much praise on a fighter too early and largely that's due to fact that around the time i starting watching boxing in my late teens '12-'14 most of the prospects or younger champs and contenders that were hyped to be in the spot light took Ls around that time period or a couple years prior and a lot of em really recovered to fulfill early expectations
Amir Khan was expected to dominate at 140 & 147, Broner, Donaire, Mares, Matthysse, Anselmo Moreno, Price,Caballero,Juan Ma, Linares, Segura and others got that lesson trumped in my early lol

hey how many fights have been cancelled from the card along with Charr's fight?...are there other fights added and is Shumenov still on the card?

Chris M95's picture

ok done... why do you think Estrada couldnt find Gonzalez with his rights with relatively the same amount of success as he can with his uppercuts

can you expand on your last line second para "...that will favour Gonzalez because he can fight tired isnt reliant on speed and power"

Champion97's picture

First off, I was responding to your previous post last night, but I lost what I'd typed, my fault for bot saving it in my notes, but I'll try to re type it later.

Because Gonzalez comes in low, makes himself small, makes the opponent over reach with the right hand, comes in at an angle, but you don't need a big gap for the uppercut, it's really an inside shot.

He's a savvy veteran, he's likely to tire, his shots will be slower and lose power, but he won't gas completely even if he takes slightly longer to recover than when he was younger, so he'll be able to keep throwing, will still be varied, will still be accurate, and will stop Estrada pushing him back, because of how he positions his feet.

Chris M95's picture

no worries bro that just sucks dont it i try to just highlight and drag and save a para with "copy" before getting on to the next that way if i accidentally lose something i wont lose it all and sometimes it would be easier to draw connections from the saved content and what you lost

yeah i can see that
and good write up my guy even tho i disagree i dont feel it comes to that....where its a dog fight much less a competitive one in the later rds...where both fighters are fighting on relatively equal terms late like the Estrada Rungvisai fights ...or a situation late where Estrada would be forced to Chocolatito on the back foot to get results

Chocolatito MD. you guys have already written an entire book about this fight so i can't add much lol. pressure seems to be the big problem for JE, RG can't throw at the volume he used to and has to pick his spots more but he can still use footwork to push bigger guys back and that will make JE uncomfortable for as long as it lasts. won't be surprised if the age/tread advantage prevails because choco has definitely slowed down.

Gold's picture

The problem I can see with Choc slowing down is he'll take too many clean shots from Estrada while coming in because of his volume dropping

Jarod Killian's picture

Do you feel this fight would’ve played any different tonight had Chocolatito had Abel Sanchez in his corner instead of Marcos Caballeros?

Jarod Killian's picture

Or perhaps taking all 3 judges out to dinner the night before the fight. But seriously do you guys think having switched trainers to Abel Sanchez would’ve helped Chocolatito?

Champion97's picture

Why would that have helped Gonzalez? He lost a very close and controversial decision to the favourite, what did you think was wrong with his game plan?

wasn't the pressure performance i was expecting. not sure he's capable of it anymore. impressive that he still probably should have won in such an exchange heavy fight.

Jarod Killian's picture

Get a KO and make the judges redundant.

Champion97's picture

I think this was a robbery, I thought Gonzalez won 6 clear rounds, there were a few close rounds, the rounds are there for Estrada to get a draw, but in my opinion, Estrada winning is off the mark, the judging for this was terrible, Sucre had Estrada winning wide, and not only that, but he gave Gonzalez 1 of Estrada's best rounds, which makes his card even worse. It's possible I misinterpreted the fight, but if I didn't, Gonzalez was robbed of whay would have been arguably his best win, I think away fighters are more likely to get a fair shake in most USA states than in the UK, but in Texas, it's worse than in the UK.

Estrada couldn't out box or hurt Gonzalez, Gonzalez cut off the ring too well for Estrada to use lateral movement, Gonzalez was relentless at times, and when he backed up, which I think was strategic, he kept adjusting his positioning, Estrada couldn't sustain his pressure. Gonzalez was defensively better than Estrada, he was blocking shots well, was never in a vulnerable position, Estrada took punishment and came off worse in most of the exchanges, he was a target for the right hand, was hurt by that shot a few times, he did the right thing whenever he was hurt by that shot until the last round, he moved to his left as he went backwards, but he was going for broke in the last round, seemed to think he needed the win. Estrada used his speed, threw combinations and moved, was varied, did good work to the body, and the right uppercut was accurate and well timed, but he got heavily out worked, couldn't fight at Gonzalez's tempo, and Gonzalez did more damage.

Was definitely a close BUT clear win for Choco.

I don't think that this was a robbery per se, but I do think this was a questionable decision. I thought this was a close but clear win for Gonzalez, the cleaner, more accurate punches came from him, and he was the aggressor for the majority of the fight.

I can maybe see 115-113 Estrada, but 117-111? No, that did not happen. It's not quite a robbery, as I can say that there are two rounds I gave Chocolatito that could reasonably have gone the other way, but it's a bit of a stretch.

Champion97's picture

If it was a clear win for Gonzalez, how was it not a robbery? I don't understand that.

To me a "robbery" is when there is absolutely no reasonable way that the fight could have been scored as anything but a win for one fighter. I had it 116-112 for Gonzalez, but I think there were enough close rounds to give a 115-113 for Estrada. Based on how I score fights, I thought it was a clear win, but I also acknowledge that other people favor other things in a fight, so what I saw as a clear win might not be a clear win to somebody else.

In short, it's questionable, but to me this doesn't come to the level of "Robbery". But 117-111 was utterly moronic, and no reasonable person could come to that score for Estrada.

Champion97's picture

Ok, so it wasn't a clear win for Gonzalez if you can see 7-5 for Estrada, was it? I think it was a robbery because I think Gonzalez won 6 clear rounds.

It's hard to explain. From my perspective Gonzales should have won that fight. But given that boxing scoring is subjective, something that is a clear round to one person might be seen as close by someone else.

So to you this is a robbery, to me this is just questionable. Although given the 117-111 scorecard one has to question if maybe there was something less than honest about the judging.

Either way I'm all in for the trilogy fight.

Whenever you have two judges that see a somewhat similar fight and then another goes completely off track, it's a robbery.

It sucks that a judging controversy took place in such an amazing fight.

beaunuitmem's picture

Pig of a fight to score but I really don't see the drama about 117-111 Estrada. Harsh scorecard but I think it could be explainable. There were enough shots from both fighters that hit a little on the gloves, to throw almost every round into question except for the first one. This judge gets suspended but the judge that gave 115-111 to Deontay Wilder in the first Fury fight didn't. At least Estrada was throwing punches.

Champion97's picture

Wilder threw more shots than Fury, Estrada got heavily out worked.

beaunuitmem's picture

You agree that there is no case to be made for 115-111 though? Tell me no and I'll rewatch it but that's my 'go-to' bad scorecard.
Estrada was the harder hitter and his defence wasn't too shabby either considering the number of shots. I think it was a close fight, couldn't argue too much either way but I think there is just as good a case, if not more so for Estrada 117-111 than there is Chocolatito 117-111.

Champion97's picture

First of all, do you acknowledge that Wilder threw more shots than Fury and Gonzalez threw more than Estrada? If so, it doesn't make sense to say 'at least Estarda threw punches', does it?

I think it was a bad one, in my opinion, a draw was fair, but not Wilder winning even by 2 points, still, it's not the worst scorecard we've seen, I think 9-3 for Estrada is worse. Gonzalez's defence was definitely better overall, Estrada's defence, as some of us expected, was leaky, he took punishment in the exchanges, he hit harder, but he didn't do more damage. One of us, if not both of, misinterpreted the fight, the offical judges tie in with your interpretation, but this was Texas, they have a track record for bad judging, look at the disgusting scoring in the co-main event. If you look at the cards on here and unofficial cards in general, you see very few have Estrada winning, almost all gave him 4-6 rounds, but this isn't like Canelo vs Lara or Pacquiao vs Marquez III, where it's a 50/50 split, the controversy rating is 80-90%. This was a robbery as far as I'm concerned, Gonzalez, as humble as he is, at least says with confidence he deserved to win, Estrada was clearly less confident, if you ask me, he's hinted he thinks it was a draw.

beaunuitmem's picture

I don't dispute Wilder threw more shots than Fury, I admit to finding it surprising but having said that throwing more than Fury did not mean he threw a lot. Punches were few and far between and identifying what connected in that fight was a lot easier when compared to Saturday night so I should have said connecting with punches rather than throwing. Judging a punch that hits half glove, half chin and trying to catch multiple instances per second is almost impossible. I just feel I could make a case for that 117-111 judge and that doesn't detract from Chocolatito's performance (who I thought was brilliant).

I will rewatch and rescore at some point when my head can take it. Not like it was a bad fight

Chris M95's picture

I know question wasn’t aimed at me idk but looking at the rds that Rochin scored I was in agreement with all but 2 rds the 3rd and 4th and on second viewing while im not changing my card I did feel maybe I was wrong in scoring the 4th for Fury and 1st for Wilder maybe Fury finished stronger in rd 1 to make a case against him losing the rd real hard but all 3 judges apparently and not just Rochin gave Wilder that rd 2 I always had Wilder winning clear enough but 2 of the 3 judges had Fury and rd 3 I found closer than when I scored it as well the remaining rds I agree more so with Rochin than the other 2 who somehow gave Wilder the 7th

beaunuitmem's picture

Gonna have to rewatch that. It's in my memorty as worst card of recent times and that includes adelaide byrd and whoever threw out the 119-109 in the loma lopez fight but I know how much boxing you guys watch so I'm not dismissing it.

Champion97's picture

He did throw a lot for a heavyweight I'd say, but you could put that down to his weight, and I'm not saying he did enough to win or even necessarily deserve a draw, given how inaccurate he was, but 'at least Estrada threw punches', doesn't make sense if you acknowledge Wilder threw more than Fury, and Gonzalez obviously out worked Estrada heavily. I didn't think Wilder's shots were few and far between, but that's a good point you make about it being easier to see how many were landing than on Saturday, still, I'm 100% sure, not that I'm right it was a robbery (I'm 70% on that), but on Gonzalez out landing Estrada heavily. It isn,'t easy, I agree, and that's why I have reservations about my own interpretation, and I look at how other people scored it, I say this was a robbery with a fair amount if confidence, not because I think I'm a better judge than anyone else or have the ability to see things others can't see, but because the scores mostly range between 6-6 and 8-4, for Gonzalez, not between 7-5 either way. I can't disagree enough on that, you can't give Gonzalez only 3 rounds, that idiot gave him a clear Estrada round, so if I'm right, he gave Estrada 4 clear Gonzalez rounds. If round count wasn't what mattered, the scoring system would be different, I'm not a believer in wide cards in close fights, if you have it 9-3, you can't score it close.

It might have been the fight of the decade so far, either that or Zepeda vs Baranchyk, I'll definitely rewatch it.

beaunuitmem's picture

I explained the throwing punches thing (just volume when comparing fight to fight). I didn't see 1 clear round for Gonzalez but I will definitely rewatch. Obviously commentary had me doubting whole way through and seeing the '88% controversy' only compounded that doubt.

Champion97's picture

You're only in against your opponent, Estrada didn't out throw Gonzalez, Wilder did out throw Fury, and Estrada and Wilder both landed a low percentage of what they threw than Gonzalez and Fury, even though the difference in percentage was definitely smaller for Estrada vs Gonzalez than Wilder vs Fury. Were you rooting for Estrada? Some of those rounds were very clear for Gonzalez.

beaunuitmem's picture

Changed my round 10. I think I must have given too much value to the big right hand about half way through. I was wrong to say no clear rounds and agree 117-111 is more than a push.

Champion97's picture

I respect your honesty man, it's easy to misinterpret rounds when you're watching a fight live, I do it all the time myself.

beaunuitmem's picture

100% neutral, if anything, I prefer Gonzales's style.

tuxtucis's picture

Great match, but real robbery. I don't really see how to score it for Estrada, no way.